Ampacity

[mivey]

I am willing to bet all of your money the table will be revised. Bet, bet...huh?

Probably, but let's skip the nickle and dime stuff and use all your money, if the casinos could cover it.:wink:

 

[iwire]

I remember speaking with John Canjemi of UL, and he has stated in the meetings that the manufacturer uses the standards as guidelines, but can write stricter labeling as long as it does not change the minimum of the Standard(s) they are required to adhere to.

They can write whatever they want but it can not be enforced.

There is nothing in the NEC to back it up unless those stricter instructions are written into the listing of the product.

110.3(B) as it stands today is not all encompassing, it has limits and the limit is instructions included in the listing.

 

[gndrod]

T315(B)(2)(a)

T315(B)(2)(a)

"310.15....20"?? Don't see 20 amps until 240.4(D)(5). It is either a typo or outdated tables. I'm guessing outdated tables.

No need to guess. I've just sent an email to ask.

Based on the SQ D footnote to 315, I was using the more than 3 conductor ambient adjustment factor or 24" length single conductor rationalization here....25 x .80 = 20A

 

[kid_stevens]

Type NM-B:

Wierd stuff, I tells ya! They can't even decide what color to make it. Some's white.... some's yeller, some's that icky orange. And when it's real thick, it's black as coal!

Yep and we can't use that white here in NM (New Mexico) not Non Metallic. No 14 AWG allowed in construction here any more.

To see the inspector take a voltage reading at the meter then the breaker and then an outlet and you better not have a voltage drop of 5% between meter and breaker and 3 % between breaker and final device or you fail. So by getting rid of 14AWG they killed off the major reason for excessive voltage drops.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

We have talked about this before and I still do not agree.

In order to list a product to a particular standard there are obligations you must meet, you can't say I choose not to meet all these obligations but still desire the same listing as another manufacturer that meets all the obligations.

We have had a number of disagreements in the past. I would like to think the number has diminished over the years.

Maybe we will be left with 2 items we disagree on.

1. 110.3(B), labeling and listing.

2. Yankees and Redsox :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Yep and we can't use that white here in NM (New Mexico) not Non Metallic. No 14 AWG allowed in construction here any more.

To see the inspector take a voltage reading at the meter then the breaker and then an outlet and you better not have a voltage drop of 5% between meter and breaker and 3 % between breaker and final device or you fail. So by getting rid of 14AWG they killed off the major reason for excessive voltage drops.

An inspector taking readings???
I wonder what kind of insurance they carry, it must be very, very expensive not to mention that would also change the workers comp they pay.

I also wonder what kind of PPE they use.
It does not sound like a very smart thing for them to be doing, paranoi is what comes to my mind when I read stuff like this.

 

[augie47]

as far as Southwire goes, my warped brain thinks they are probably playing CYA with their chart. If someone goes to Southwire to check ampacity they may not be too Code oriented. If Southwire stated "25 amps" and a customer used the Romex in a 20 amp restricted manner they would have one unhappy camper. If Southwire says "20" they have covered 95% of the applications and those who are Code knowledgeable know where they can use it at "25".
I have found over the years most manufacturers "play it safe" on publishing data.

 

[kid_stevens]

An inspector taking readings???
I wonder what kind of insurance they carry, it must be very, very expensive not to mention that would also change the workers comp they pay.

I also wonder what kind of PPE they use.
It does not sound like a very smart thing for them to be doing, paranoi is what comes to my mind when I read stuff like this.

Here City and County inspectors have to have held a JE98 classification before they became a government AHJ. That is not written in the book it is how they are hired. So when you are arguing with them you are not arguing with an idiot.

 

[mlnk]

I would call NM-B regular new Romex. I remember when it came out in the 1980s to replace NM.
As to the answer to the test question. Either 20 amps or 25 amps. Lots of questions are ambiguous (except on my tests!) I think the state has one person write the test, then no one ever reviews it or wonders why 90% of the applicants are failing that question.

 

[kid_stevens]

I just call NM-B, Romex. But since it is used in residential not industrial or commercial here, I hold it to the 20 Amp rule not the higher 25 amp 12 AWG used in certain specialties.

 

[radiopet]

To see the inspector take a voltage reading at the meter then the breaker and then an outlet and you better not have a voltage drop of 5% between meter and breaker and 3 % between breaker and final device or you fail. So by getting rid of 14AWG they killed off the major reason for excessive voltage drops.

Hmm.....hope none of my inspectors do this.....I would have a problem with them trying to take these readings and enforcing something that is only a FPN. Now, I might do something in regards to fire pumps and so on but usually it would be in the way of a letter certifying the installation and compliance but not branch circuits and feeders analysis......way to much liability for the municipal to have inspectors doing that.......we'll have to pass on that one

 

[kid_stevens]

Here that is not an FPN, the New Mexico Electrical Code makes 5% on the Service and 3 % on the runs a requirement.

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title14/14.010.0004.htm.

 

[radiopet]

Here that is not an FPN, the New Mexico Electrical Code makes 5% on the Service and 3 % on the runs a requirement.

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title14/14.010.0004.htm.

Just curious is all in the method they use to enforce it without going beyond their protocol for typical electrical inspections. Are you all required to submit residential electrical drawings as well.

Oh wait....nevermind as I see they are only applying the 5% on the Lateral Service which would be an easier prospect....sorry.