sadly....it's how EC's think
another bid result - I'm horrified now
- Thread starter CopperTone
- Start date
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sadly....it's how EC's think
JWCELECTRIC
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
I think the low bid contractor may have found some mistakes on the drawings that he thinks he can make up with change orders, or he is going to get 'Or Equal" products approved through shop submittals and try saving money that way. If the Town/City were wise they would toss out the low bid, typically the Engineer will provide a cost on construction which is usually were the average bid prices come in +/-
Same thing going on on the larger jobs. There aren't any really big jobs out around us ($20M +) but we have been bidding quite a few in the up to $10M range. Most of the bids are all over the map. We have gone in at our rock bottom price and still been beat by as much as $2M. We bid a generator controls job prime a few months back and got beet by $6M and we were #2 out of 3! We are even bidding jobs less than $500,000 and getting killed. There is always someone out there doing something stupid.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
The bad thing is that I need to win bids to keep cash coming in. Its damned if you do and damned if you dont situation.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I'm sitting home a lot, figure it's better to not make money at home than working. Saves wear and tear on me, my tools, and my vehicles.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
What about the phone,utilities,insurance all of these still need paid.How long do you sit at home?
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I can afford to sit for a couple of years if necessary. I had a great 5 years (out of the last 6).
That's part of the problem.
Many EC's are pricing their jobs too low during the good times.
I've been reading this forum for years and even during the good times you have guys saying they can do a job for half of what someone else charges and how some of these guys are overpriced rip offs.
Being able to do a job for half the price of the other guy is a good thing. Doing the job for half the price of the other guy is not.
They make comments on how they make enough to get by and they're not looking to get rich off their customers. Do they take into consideration that when the bad times hit that extra money they could have gotten by not beating the other guys price by half sure would be nice to have or may even be necessary to stay in business?
During the good times the only way they know how to get jobs is to beat the other guys price so when the bad times hit they do the only thing they know how to do. They lower their price, that was enough to get by on, in an attempt to get some work. The only problem is now they're losing money instead of just getting by.
Maybe these overpriced rip offs charge what they charge so when the bad times hit they have money in the bank to get them through bad times.
I believe you need to make more than what you think is necessary during the good times and put the extra money into the bad times fund.
Just because you can beat a guys price by half doesn't mean you should.
Just because you have lower overhead doesn't mean you should charge less for your services. Unless of course you don't feel your services are worth as much as the other guys. If that's the case then by all meand charge what you feel your worth.
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hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
That's part of the problem.
Many EC's are pricing their jobs too low during the good times.
I've been reading this forum for years and even during the good times you have guys saying they can do a job for half of what someone else charges and how some of these guys are overpriced rip offs.
Being able to do a job for half the price of the other guy is a good thing. Doing the job for half the price of the other guy is not.
They make comments on how they make enough to get by and they're not looking to get rich off their customers. Do they take into consideration that when the bad times hit that extra money they could have gotten by not beating the other guys price by half sure would be nice to have or may even be necessary to stay in business?
During the good times the only way they know how to get jobs is to beat the other guys price so when the bad times hit they do the only thing they know how to do. They lower their price, that was enough to get by on, in an attempt to get some work. The only problem is now they're losing money instead of just getting by.
Maybe these overpriced rip offs charge what they charge so when the bad times hit they have money in the bank to get them through bad times.
I believe you need to make more than what you think is necessary during the good times and put the extra money into the bad times fund.
Just because you can beat a guys price by half doesn't mean you should.
Just because you have lower overhead doesn't mean you should charge less for your services. Unless of course you don't feel your services are worth as much as the other guys. If that's the case then by all meand charge what you feel your worth.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Where I used to work the salesman hated my attitude. I always said how do you know where the ceiling is (price) if you don't lose a job now and then?
The company I worked with for the last 4 years has some new owners, and they made a comment about a year ago that I had made more money (working with them) than the previous owner did...... EVER!. They were mad at me because I was not afraid to charge what I could get. The wrap on me is he's more than the other guy, but worth it. I can live with that.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
Looking back is fun but reality is today and looking ahead is what we should be doing the only problem with sitting home as a business if I sat out for six months I would have to rebuild my business from scratch.
Business abores a vacuum and when someone steps down someone else will step up.I think we are at the starting point of major adjustments in how business is done I think what is happening at GM will work its way through all the markets.I see businesses trimming down ,pay and compensation packages getting smaller and old ways giving way to new ideas.
I know many will sit back and look at these lean hungry contractors and say they will soon be gone but the reality is the tables have turned and these guys are bidding to survive and they will do whatever it takes they will find a way to make it work.
30 years ago the big retail giants didn't consider Wal_Mart a threat but just try and find Montgomery Wards or Ben Franklin Or Woolworths today.
Business abores a vacuum and when someone steps down someone else will step up.I think we are at the starting point of major adjustments in how business is done I think what is happening at GM will work its way through all the markets.I see businesses trimming down ,pay and compensation packages getting smaller and old ways giving way to new ideas.
I know many will sit back and look at these lean hungry contractors and say they will soon be gone but the reality is the tables have turned and these guys are bidding to survive and they will do whatever it takes they will find a way to make it work.
30 years ago the big retail giants didn't consider Wal_Mart a threat but just try and find Montgomery Wards or Ben Franklin Or Woolworths today.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
there is that. everything changes, all the time.
and most all of us, generally speaking, resist change more than we resist
anything else. most of our actions are to establish a familiar routine, and
having done so, to maintain it. we all want to sit in our warm fuzzy slippers
secure in the knowledge that nothing unexpected will be happening to us.
look at the newspaper industry. the single most decimating thing to happen
to it was craigslist. a guy starting out with an email list in san francisco......
can play a significant part in the elimination of an entire industry?
You don't need to sit out for six months.
You just don't have to stress so much if you don't get the job.
Having the money in the bank doesn't mean you need to sit out for six months although if you have enough money in the bank that's an option.
Having the extra money in the bank also gives you the option to lower your prices and still have the funds available to cover your expenses if necessary. If you didn't charge enough during the good times and don't have this extra money in the bank then you're out of luck.
Although you may make little or no profit during this time if you've made enough profit during the good times to compensate for it, overall you may do ok.
Options are nice to have.
Dnkldorf
Senior Member
If you didn't charge enough during the good times and don't have this extra money in the bank then you're out of luck.
What if he charged plenty and blew it on stupid stuff.
I just read a story about a guy, who never made more than $11/hr in his life, and just gave away millions.....millions....he saved and invested his little leftovers.
It's not how much you charge, but what you do with it, once you made it.
If you blow it, you'll have to keep charging more to make up for it.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I once had a Korean friend that had just tested for and obtained his American citizenship. He came over and asked my advice on how an American should celebrate such an event.
I told him that we would go out and eat to much, drink to much and talk real loud and make fools of ourselves. If he did this everywhere he went no one would ever question if he was an American.
I now realize that I forgot to tell him to spend all his money on stupid stuff. It's the American way. :grin:
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Again, you said it better than I would have. You are describing me exactly right now. I quote and hold my price. I'm working about 10 - 20 hours a week and loving it. My modest home is paid for, all my vehicles are paid for, no debt at all.
I busted my butt for years. I'm enjoying the slower times I'm in.
I understand the guys hustling for work and trying to keep men busy. I've been there and done that. I choose to not do it again.
Did you miss the part where I said; and don't have this extra money in the bank.
I don't recall mentioning you should charge more, blow the money on stupid stuff and keep charging more to make up for it.
If he made millions from his investments then he made more than $11/hr in his life.
He just didn't make more than $11/hr from one of his investments, which would be his job.
Just think how much he could have invested had he made $22/hr from his job, which is in my opinion an investment just like going into business is an investment.
Everything you do is an investment of some sort. Even when your on this forum your investing something. That something is your time.
You may not be getting much of a return on your investment though.
Would investing my time doing something else provide me with a better return on my investment? I'm not necessarily talking about money as a return on my investment either.
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Dnkldorf
Senior Member
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
It's about what you have left over. I lost 1/2 of my money last year in the stock market. I just had the good sense to live modestly and pay off everything during good times. If I had the money I lost in the market last year, I might not work more than 5 hours a week for the rest of my life.
As it is now, I'm resting and getting ready to get back into the race soon as I don't have enough to retire and probably never will.
All you young bucks should pay attention. If you don't NEED to work, then you can pick your work. If you NEED to work, then you will have to do anything/everything, no matter how little money is in it.
As it is now, I'm resting and getting ready to get back into the race soon as I don't have enough to retire and probably never will.
All you young bucks should pay attention. If you don't NEED to work, then you can pick your work. If you NEED to work, then you will have to do anything/everything, no matter how little money is in it.
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