Another Health Care/Dentist office question

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

emahler

Senior Member
We are looking at a dental office...the building is stick built and classified as Type 5B..

the building is existing 2 story with basement, and everything is in NM...i mean everything...

here are the questions (yep, reading the code book as I type, but looking for opinions)

1)exam rooms - HCF to outlets and chair?
2)2x4 lay ins above dropped ceiling - standard MC?
3) non-patient care areas (waiting room, reception, staff lounge, etc) - wired in NM?

thanks
 
emahler said:
We are looking at a dental office...the building is stick built and classified as Type 5B..

the building is existing 2 story with basement, and everything is in NM...i mean everything...

here are the questions (yep, reading the code book as I type, but looking for opinions)

1)exam rooms - HCF to outlets and chair?
2)2x4 lay ins above dropped ceiling - standard MC?
3) non-patient care areas (waiting room, reception, staff lounge, etc) - wired in NM?

thanks
Click to expand...


#1 Yes
#2 No, AC would be needed, see exception No 2 to 517.13(B) it does not remove the requirement of 517.13(A)
#3 Yes

Roger
 
roger said:
#1 Yes
#2 No, AC would be needed, see exception No 2 to 517.13(B) it does not remove the requirement of 517.13(A)
#3 Yes

Roger
Click to expand...

#2 - understood, but AC (or BX) was more expensive than MC last time I priced it....I haven't priced the new MC(AP) yet...

so theoretically, I can feed a wall switch with NM, then run AC or MC up to the lay-in...

nothing like making it easy...
 
emahler said:
#2 - understood, but AC (or BX) was more expensive than MC last time I priced it....I haven't priced the new MC(AP) yet...
Click to expand...

Neither have I.

emahler said:
so theoretically, I can feed a wall switch with NM, then run AC or MC up to the lay-in...
Click to expand...

No you can't, read the first sentence of 517.13(A), "branch circuit" is the key

Roger
 
BryanMD said:
I might be starting something but...

#2 Yes BUT USE HCF FOR THE SWITCH LEG (below 7' aff)
Click to expand...

Wrong, 517.13(A) and 7'6" would be the measurement for not needing the insulated EGC.


Roger
 
roger said:
Neither have I.



No you can't, read the first sentence of 517.13(A), "branch circuit" is the key

Roger
Click to expand...

Roger,

i erroneously agreed with you last night...the NM to the switch and the MC to the layin has nothing to do with 517 and is quite legal...believe it or not...
 
emahler said:
Roger,

i erroneously agreed with you last night...the NM to the switch and the MC to the layin has nothing to do with 517 and is quite legal...believe it or not...
Click to expand...

Wrong if this is a "patient care area", if it is, your erroneously agreeing with me was correct.

Roger
 
roger said:
Wrong if this is a "patient care area", if it is, your erroneously agreeing with me was correct.

Roger
Click to expand...

nah, these are above the 7' 6" and covered by exception #2...additionally, most of the lighting fixtures are not in patient care areas...so i was incorrect when i incorrectly agreed with you...
 
emahler said:
nah, these are above the 7' 6" and covered by exception #2...additionally, most of the lighting fixtures are not in patient care areas...so i was incorrect when i incorrectly agreed with you...
Click to expand...

Read exception #2 again.

Outside of the patient care area is fine.


Roger
 
roger said:
Read exception #2 again.

Outside of the patient care area is fine.


Roger
Click to expand...

the way I read it, if these are 2x4 layins in an 8' ceiling, then they are outside of the patient care area and do not need an insulated equipment ground...hence they can be wired in AC...these circuits can be fed with NM, or AC, or MC...but no insulated or redundant grounding required...

even if the lights are over a patient care area....

am i reading it incorrectly...
 
You are right in your interpretation that an insulated EGC is not needed for theses fixtures but, the branch circuit still has to comply with 517.13 which means it must be in a metallic raceway that in itself is recognized as an EGC in 250.118.

The fixtures are still in the "patient care area", they just aren't in the "patient vicinity".

Roger
 
roger said:
You are right in your interpretation that an insulated EGC is not needed for theses fixtures but, the branch circuit still has to comply with 517.13 which means it must be in a metallic raceway that in itself is recognized as an EGC in 250.118.

The fixtures are still in the "patient care area", they just aren't in the "patient vicinity".

Roger
Click to expand...

ok....i see what you are saying...i was reading that the lights over 7 1/2' were not included at all in the 517...
 
The way I see it - it depends on where the switch is located. If the switch is in the patient care area then the switch and the lights must be wired in an approved 517 method with redundant grounds. If the switch is NOT in a patient care area AND the fixtures are over 7 1/2 feet off the floor the no to 517. Basically switch in patient care then it's HFC/pipe for both lights and switch as the code states "branch circuits". You can not due half the circuit one way and the other half another. You must do the ENTIRE circuit from the panel to the last device.
 
in this particular case, the switch is outside of the exam room...

additionally, I tend to agree with mark that the lay-in's are in the space above the area...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top