Another pool thread (inground)

[Kessler4130]

I am bidding an inground pool installation today and have a few questions.
The scenario:

Pump is on the side of the house 50' from inside wall of pool and on the opposite side of a fence, supposedly 120v 30amp.

1 light to be installed in pool, line voltage, I do not know what niche type as of yet.

and of course a general purpose receptacle between 10 and 20 ft. from inside wall of pool (GFCI).

The pool is 43' from the house so there is no existing electrical installations that are in question.

Now for the questions, I have read 680 front to back, several times and would imagine the pump would have to be GFCI protected, yet I see nothing stating I have to GFCI protect it(Unless of course the pump itself states that). I intend to run a #8 solid from the pump casing to the bonding grid, Romex inside to a J-box, PVC out with insulated ground, and don't yet know how they intend to control the pump. Is there a time clock readily available that is a listed disconnecting means as well ?

The light I plan to run 12/2 MC to the GFCI then PVC to the switch, and then to the pool rated junction box located according to 680.24(a)(2). And ofcourse will install the #8 THHN from the fixture to the J-box. The question I mainly have is : The NEC says the ground must be unspliced unless it terminates at a GFCI or Switch, before the Pool box. Well I have both obviously, should I use normal means (pig tail, ground screw) or am I required to use a listed ground lug ?


Sorry for the long post I just wanted to clarify the situation and my intentions, any information would be appreciated even it does not directly relate to my question.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Now for the questions, I have read 680 front to back, several times and would imagine the pump would have to be GFCI protected, yet I see nothing stating I have to GFCI protect it(Unless of course the pump itself states that).

Why would you imagine that you would have to use a GFI on the pump. As a matter of fact, you don't have to unless it is a cord and plug connection to a 120 or 240 Volt receptacle. Art. 680.22 (5)

should I use normal means (pig tail, ground screw) or am I required to use a listed ground lug ?

Article 680.23(F)(2) exception (a) is confusing in that it seems to say that you must terminate on the ground terminals on the transformer, GFCI, clock-operated switch enclosure, ....

The connection to ground on these devices usually have only one terminal so I would say that you would have to splice with wirenuts or put two wires around a screw--- I can't see that happening on a GFCI receptacle.
Anyway else have an opinion?? haha-- of course they do-- let's hear it

At the brass junction box for the pool lights you must use the terminals provided.

 

[QES]

agree with Dennis Alwon. make sure the light box is listed for pool.
why the pump is running at 120V? Most pump can run both 120 and 240V. Most pool pump running on 240V.

 

[Kessler4130]

Thanks Dennis, just wanted some clarification, and the box I am using is a pool rated J-box.

And I have no idea why he opted for a 120v motor, or so he says anyways.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Have you considered installing a small pool panel?

This would take care of the grounding issue, and provide a place for the timer, pump receptacle & disconnect in one neat package. A GFCI circuit could be piped from here to the required receptacle, with a switch and then on to the deck box for the wet niche fixture.

There are knockouts on the side and bottom of this for devices such as switches and singlex receptacle as well as KOs for conduits.

 

[Kessler4130]

Good deal, I will certainly look into the pool panel, thanks Lawnguy.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

As an added plus... Since this is your 1st pool and it's not unrealistic to get something wrong, inspectors generally let absolutely nothing slide when inspecting pools, and they tend to LOVE pool panels.

 

[danickstr]

Intermatics are available in 240/30amp I think.

I think the conduit from the light has to go to a certain height above the water line before a box.

 

[Kessler4130]

Intermatics are available in 240/30amp I think.

I think the conduit from the light has to go to a certain height above the water line before a box.

It does, 8 inches above the water line or 4 inches above grade, whatever is greater. (I believe) Thanks for the info I'll check out intermatics

 

[brantmacga]

Have you considered installing a small pool panel?

This would take care of the grounding issue, and provide a place for the timer, pump receptacle & disconnect in one neat package. A GFCI circuit could be piped from here to the required receptacle, with a switch and then on to the deck box for the wet niche fixture.

There are knockouts on the side and bottom of this for devices such as switches and singlex receptacle as well as KOs for conduits.

this is the exact panel that i use on all my pools. if you use this one, let me share w/ you how i wire it. each timer has two white leads that provide power to the clock. i use the left timer for the pump and the right timer for the sweep. take the leads off the right timer and put them under the lugs w/ the leads on the left timer. now, connect terminals 2 & 4 from left to 1 & 3 on the right. this will allow the right timer to keep correct time, but only switch on when the pump is on; it will keep the sweep from being damaged by running w/o the pump on.

no gfi on the pump, only on the lights.

 

[QES]

those pool timer/panel does not look too good, but it is cheap and it does the jop well. But for some what avg. pool you want to install electronic automation system.

 

[Kessler4130]

those pool timer/panel does not look too good, but it is cheap and it does the jop well. But for some what avg. pool you want to install electronic automation system.

Well I honestly have no idea how he plans to control anything but the light, the pool guy may have already sold him some type of automated controls with it. He sure doesn't know, it sure is different than when I used to do all industrial/ commercial work, you ask someone for drawings or cut sheets and they look at you like your UFO is parked out front.