Another question this morning!

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joeyww12000

joeyww12000

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Location
Chatsworth GA
On my job we were running low on the right colors of wire to make some long pulls. So obviously my foreman says to pull in another color and phase it in the jbox's and splice it the right color in the trough before going into the panel to land it. This was done on every conductor at one time or another throughout the duration of this job. I know this isnt right, what code violations were broken here?
 
What are the right colors??


http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NECQ-HTML/HTML/NEC_Questions008~20030808.htm

Q4. What is the NEC color code requirement for 120/208V and 277/480V systems?

A4. The NEC does not contain color code requirement for ungrounded conductors, except 110.15 requires the high-leg conductor from a 120/240 4-wire delta-connected system to be identified with the color orange. The grounded (neutral) conductors must be identified with the color white or gray in accordance with 200.6 and equipment grounding (bonding) conductors must be bare, or identified in the color green, or green with a yellow strip if insulated in accordance with 250.119.
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Violation for not properly planning. When you run your own job make sure it doesnt happen to you.

I think the only conductor you cant remark like the situation you have is the neutral up to #6.
 
Is there more than one voltage system in the building? If so you have violations of 210.5(C) and/or 215.12(C).
 
Is there more than one voltage system in the building? If so you have violations of 210.5(C) and/or 215.12(C).
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Don I think he said all colors were properly identified to match the projects standard identification.

Violation for not properly planning. When you run your own job make sure it doesn't happen to you.
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While I tend to agree with the planning thought, there are project deadlines, tight monies, utilization of material at hand and as long as it does not violate any job specs, he is trying to make his boss money not all that bad of an idea.
 
brian john said:
Don I think he said all colors were properly identified to match the projects standard identification.




While I tend to agree with the planning thought, there are project deadlines, tight monies, utilization of material at hand and as long as it does not violate any job specs, he is trying to make his boss money not all that bad of an idea.
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I agree with Brian this happens all the time and money is very important. As long as it is code complient and does not violate job specs whats the hazzard?
 
Brian,
It appears to me that the main part of the runs did not match the projects standard indentification...only the tails that were spliced on the end of the runs matched...at least that is how I read the post.
 
SEO said:
I agree with Brian this happens all the time and money is very important. As long as it is code complient and does not violate job specs whats the hazzard?
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I don't see a hazard, but in my opinion it is not code compliant.(assuming more than one voltage system in the building)
If there is only a single voltage system the installation is code compliant.
 
brian john said:
While I tend to agree with the planning thought, there are project deadlines, tight monies, utilization of material at hand and as long as it does not violate any job specs, he is trying to make his boss money not all that bad of an idea.
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Unless he gets a red tag for having a red or black neutral, or a white ground. :wink: :rolleyes: This could be one of those times when it will come down to an AHJ decision depending on exactly what's been done.
All too often, it's more cost effective to do something right the first time than it is to tear it out and try to redo it later.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I don't see a hazard, but in my opinion it is not code compliant.(assuming more than one voltage system in the building)
If there is only a single voltage system the installation is code compliant.
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A person could assume anything . I guess that if you are to assume use the most stringent assumption.:smile:
 
Ok here is what happened on the job. We were pulling in Brown, Orange, Yellow, Grey for 277/480 and Black, Red, Blue, White for 120/208. If we ran out of yellow we would pull whatever color we had and phase it at the end of the pull with yellow phasing tape. When we came into our panels we would use long enough pieces of scrap to splice back to yellow before landing on the breaker.
 
DanZ said:
All too often, it's more cost effective to do something right the first time than it is to tear it out and try to redo it later.
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Or as my old boss use to say "Why is there never enough money to do it right the first time, but there is always enough to fix it later, like it or not"

whatever color we had and phase it at the end of the pull with yellow phasing tape
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Well not something I like to do or see. Black marked any color is fine, but yellow marked red or blue not something I'd particularly like.
 
"All work shall be done in a neat and workmanlike manner."?
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yeah that works, I have seen some of these sloppiest work going and it passes. Any inspectors ever cite a contractor for violating this "All work shall be done in a neat and workmanlike manner."
 
There is no violation not even the neat and workman like ,.. unless he did a real crappy job with the phase tape,.. I would hope you would be as certain as possible before you would confront the person responsible for the job , with this type of statement ,..

"I know this isnt right,...."

There are a lot of guys looking for work,.. My advice ,...be careful with how you raise your concern.
 
If there is more than one voltage system in the building, and you are using multiple methods to identify a conductor as to its system and phase, then your identification directory at each panel will have to include all of the methods you have used to identify each conductor as to phase and system.
 
joeyww12000 said:
On my job we were running low on the right colors of wire to make some long pulls. So obviously my foreman says to pull in another color and phase it in the jbox's and splice it the right color in the trough before going into the panel to land it. This was done on every conductor at one time or another throughout the duration of this job. I know this isnt right, what code violations were broken here?
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Sounds to me like a foreman with poor planning skills. Maybe the order actually came from his boss?? and he is just doing as told.

Looks like more labor to do all this splicing.

I can understand it happening on 1 or 2 days but thru out the duration of the project....that is poor planning
 
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