Another service change.

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It is a Siemans panel. I am in Phoenix and I think we get them from Capital. They just left the high leg up top and made it safe.

PS. I didn't have a single conductor made up when the city inspector came by at 2PM but I was able to smooze her into giving me a 5 day temp.:cool: The grounding/ bonding was done but everything else was not even close. I left there at abour 6PM.
 
Man that was a lot of old crap on the side of a "dwelling"!
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You can see the history on the wall.

The original service on the unpainted block had five, 120 circuits.

The upgraded 3 phase 200 amp was added to power a new fangled "air conditioner" some time in the early 60's when the house was pink.

Some of the white romex and SE was added over the years.

Some of the colored romex and 4 wire SE was added a few years ago.



Ground rod driver.

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We added some more romex on their latest addition.
 
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Does that Makita sink them rods pretty fast?

Oh and it takes guts to post photos of your work here. But you have been around long enough to know it's all in fun.:wink:
 
220/221 said:
Before. All added NM is sleeved/LB'd up into the gable end.
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I think that was an exception to 312.5(C) in the '02 code - as THEN you would have to have secured the cables to the box with a clamp.... It's written in a very simular way NOW...

Comentary from the handbook
The main rule of 312.5(C) prohibits the installation of several cables bunched together and run through a knockout or chase nipple. Individual cable clamps or connectors are required to be used with only one cable per clamp or connector, unless the clamp or connector is identified for more than a single cable.
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Only a few clamps are listed for more than 2-3 cables.

I guess some inspectors know this - some don't?

I usually chuck everything in a gutter - land the grounds there on a bar - and a nipple to the panel.
 
I love service upgrades. During the NC ice storm some times we could do 2 a day. I had an other guy whom now has his own bussiness. We worked well together. If it was sleeting or raining we would put a tarp above the meter area. One time we did three in a very long day. But we had to use the head lights on the truck for the last one.

I had a ram set for block walls. We had every thing ready.

And we we're permitting and having inspections on most jobs. But the inspections dept that knew the locals they would sign off on it. So the poco could turn it back on. Then check it when they got caught up.

Seems like we always had to pull a ground to the water line.
Most of the time it would be bonded to the water line but not with in 5 ft. of wher it entered the building.

And they were not as complicated like yours 220. But I generally done a true upgrade if needed. Even during the emergency conditions.

Man I had people call me and say look man What ever you charge I'll pay you double.
Well what happen was people would have their meter and disco laying out in the yard for a week. Thinking when the poco came they would fix it. Well every body else's in the neighborhood their power got turned on the poco would not hook to theirs and they would panic.

And by the way I never charged somebody double. I wouldn't want to pay double for ply wood and didn't expect them to for a service upgrade. But I did get lots of tips . cookies, cakes , etc...
Oh I could go on with this story. Their are some locals (to NC) on this forum and know what I am talking about.
I am wondering if Kentucky is going through this now.
But I think it had a bad after effect because electricians we're so sought after at the time for residential and small jobs. It made a lot of guys go down and get their license. So now IMO around central NC their are to many electricians now and they are not charging near enough.

But I am in IN now. In some counties they don't have an inspection dept. much less an inspector.
I hope this changes though so every one working on electricity will be licensed.
 
First I will say it looks much better.

220/221 said:
I have come to accept that I cannot complete a job like this without violations.
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But that is a bunch of bull, I know you are more then capable of doing it without violations and you would find a way if the inspectors where doing their job. :smile:

What you have come to accept is that your willing to take lazy short cuts just because 'all the other guys do it this way'. I probably have a couple of those as well, I rarely remark the white wires landing on breakers.

The problem is that this is a really poor method of connecting the bus components. Those screws into the soft bus do not get tight enough.
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Here your just plain wrong. :wink: :D


I can't in good conscience leave them. I am forced to remanufacture their product in order to make it safe are reliable. I don't have an after pic but I replace the self tapped black screws with nuts/bolts.
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I would find better things to do with my time.
 
RonPecinaJr said:
You guys sure have some weird looking services out in the desert.
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The all in one kinda got me too. If it were my house I'd just as soon not have the panel outside at all, but different strokes.........

My gf looked over my shoulder as I was reading about flipping the meter from underground, and just had to ask. She's like a 4 year old with the questions if I let her go. :D
 
i asked the guy at the supply house about one of those "all in one" panels and he looked at me like i was crazy
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The all in one has been standard since I started in 1973 ish. 125 amp was the standard back then. A 125 now costs more than a 200 which often results in a big panel on a little house.



I know you are more then capable of doing it without violations and you would find a way if the inspectors where doing their job
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Tell me what you would have done with the spliced pool equipment fround? A 15 cent wirenut and a bulletproof splice or a $2000 installation?

Tell me what how you would connect the cables to the panel if every single house in this huge metro area was done like that (and always has been). The more I think about it, the more I think their must be a local/regional exception. There is no way a code violation simply gets overlooked literally a million times.


I rarely remark the white wires landing on breakers
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Heh heh, and you cal ME lazy? How difficult is it to wrap some tape?

I would find better things to do with my time.
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I don't think you would. You don't strike me as a "not my job" kind of guy. If you were tightening lugs on a panel and you noticed that the factory bolts were loose, you know you would fix it. You know all the current is passing thru there and you know what hapens when electrons jump thru the air from conductor to conductor.

I can take my wimpy 10 in 1 nut driver and literally strip this thing out. There is no way that this will last.

If it were my house I'd just as soon not have the panel outside at all
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Do you spend a lot of time in your panel :grin: I look at it as equipment and will put it wherever makes sense. They are almost always outside here. We don't have many of those basement thingies.
 
220/221 said:
Do you spend a lot of time in your panel :grin: I look at it as equipment and will put it wherever makes sense. They are almost always outside here. We don't have many of those basement thingies.
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I don't spend a lot of time in my panel, however if something did happen where it was necessary to get a breaker off I'd rather not have to run out the door and around to the meter to make it happen. Also, if you ever do have to do something in there would you rather be in rain or snow as opposed to the comfort of your house? The sun doesn't shine ALL the time. :smile:

OTOH that is a lot more logical than a basement as far as getting to it in a hurry. A lot of the houses I've seen have them in a hallway as well as basements and outside jobs. Just throwing that out there.
 
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220/221 said:
You want to handle this one Peter :rolleyes:
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Hey John, how is you day going? :roll: ;)

Either inspectors in Arizona need to start enforcing the NEC, or the state of Arizona needs to address this issue with an ammendment to the NEC. Since I don't see them enforcing the code to change this practice, it seems a code ammendment is a better route to take.
 
220/221 said:
The all in one has been standard since I started in 1973 ish.
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Perhaps, but not everyone lives in Arizona. In Richmond, especially older neighborhoods, where service upgrades are everywhere, exterior panels are installed because it's often less expensive and easier than an exterior main breaker plus a new panel where the existing fuse box is.

New circuits are usually easier to run to the outside than into an interior wall, and since the POCO supplies meter bases free, we just use WP main-breaker panels. So, the options here are either outside main/inside ML panels, or outside panels. I have never installed an all-in-one.
 
I am not sure why the pool equipment ground conductor being spliced is an issue???
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I have always understood that it had to be unbroken from the service to the pool light JB.

Either inspectors in Arizona need to start enforcing the NEC, or the state of Arizona needs to address this issue with an ammendment to the NEC
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Like I said earlier, they probably do have an ammendment. I think it would have come up at some point after several hundred thousand installations. I'm certainly not going to bring it up. It aint broke as far as I'm concerned.
 
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peter d said:
Either inspectors in Arizona need to start enforcing the NEC, or the state of Arizona needs to address this issue with an ammendment to the NEC. Since I don't see them enforcing the code to change this practice, it seems a code ammendment is a better route to take.
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Are pop-in bushings really that big of a deal? Seriously? You think all those romexes are going to magically fall out of that bushing since they aren't secured with a connector?:confused: I guess I just don't see the hazard myself.....

Personally, I think an electrician has to know which codes to violate.:wink:

We have a mix of of outdoor and indoor panels here too, no basements either. I've only seen an SE cable service once.
 
looks like you CAN actually make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

that looks fantastic compared to what was there - I don't care what anyone says here.
I've had to work with crap like that before but inside the basement - it actually makes you feel pretty good when you are done - I always take pictures of before and after.
 
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