anybody ever tried this???

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charlietuna

Senior Member
You said "STRIP MALL" ...... you may be wrong about service size....probably 100 amps and who knows how far it is to the service main??? What your seeing is voltage drop-- and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to upgrade the service than to purchase a UPS large enough to help that lighting circuit.
 
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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
Fulthrotl said:
it isn't "west coast style" unless you are doing it wearing flip flops.
it's a rule we have here. sorry.

few years ago, a friend of mine was doing wal mart photo shop upgrades.
we crossed paths in las vegas, and i was helping him knock one out, so
we could go to dinner, and 'cause i was bored watching him work.

so, he comes walking in the door, and i am standing on the top step
of a 6' ladder, wearing flip flops.... the picture of OSHA compliance.....
peter, are you up to that....? west coast style is a tall order......:cool:


randy
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He's not kidding about the flip flops .
Oh and do'nt worry your service truck will have a surfboard rack
already installed.:D
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Minuteman said:
Am I the only salesman here? :smile:
Click to expand...

The OP said......

i'm guessing 200 amp single
phase sub panel. strip mall.
Click to expand...

In my area that would mean the landlord owns the service which will already be much larger then each tenants sub panel. I very much doubt that the restaurant owner is going to pay to increase the service size for the whole mall.

Even increasing the feeder is likely out of the restaurant owners budget particularly when everything is already working.

I wonder if the owner has even noticed the dimming, I think it is more of electricians affliction. :D
 
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Sparky555

Senior Member
Fulthrotl said:
the voltage drop when
the garbage disposal or microwave kicks in takes all
the nicely dimmed incandescent lamps into the toilet.
they are already dimmed to maybe 60%, and any
voltage dips really shows.

any suggestions would help. it's getting difficult to make
it to dessert.


randy
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Ask the owner to run the microwave & disposer continuously while you're dining.
 
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charlietuna

Senior Member
I owned 20 units and one of my tenants bought a silk screen tee shirt machine that drew 70 amps on his 100 amp service and his unit happened to be on the opposite end of the building away from the service. the new machine effected everything in his business! I upgraded his service to 150 amps to solve his problem and charged him my costs on labor and material. Had to take him to small claims court to get payed!! And he was a friend of mine !! Ain't that the way it always goes?
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
Karl H said:
He's not kidding about the flip flops .
Oh and do'nt worry your service truck will have a surfboard rack
already installed.:D
Click to expand...

they *all* have surfboard racks installed here.
the workaholics among us put ladders on them to
trick people, but we all know what they are
really for. i saw a sparky truck the other day, and
it had the tubes on the side for benders, and he had
a driver, a sand wedge, and a putter there instead.

priorities. what's really important always shows.
lets' the customer know where they are at on "the list".

randy
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
charlietuna said:
You said "STRIP MALL" ...... you may be wrong about service size....probably 100 amps and who knows how far it is to the service main??? What your seeing is voltage drop-- and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to upgrade the service than to purchase a UPS large enough to help that lighting circuit.
Click to expand...

i was being optimistic. it's much more likely to be a 100 amp can than a
200 amp can. i just hated to say it....:D running a full kitchen on a 12
circuit dinky little panel.....:roll:

that's it.... no more fooling around..... 1,200 amp BUS DUCT! we'll get
rid of that nasty little flicker if it takes every penny the poor fellow has.
 
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gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
090103-1345 EST

I would expect there are several hundred KVAs worth of transformers supplying this mall. In our area it could be an open delta with a wild leg. Our building, not a mall, but about 30,000 sq-ft has one large single phase transformer, ball park 175 KVA, and a smaller, maybe 75 KVA, supplying the wild leg. Air conditioners and other multi-horsepower motors do not cause noticeable flicker.

A while back we had a problem at the pole transformer connections. Arcing at both a hot and the neutral. Internally we would see a voltage drop on one side of the single phase supply and an increase on the other.

I suggest you monitor the line voltages at the business's main panel. Use three light bulbs. One on each phase at the input to the panel, and a 240 V bulb line to line. Now operate the devices that cause problems. What these lights do will tell you if there is a problem in the feeders to the panel.

If one 120 V light dims and the other 120 V light brightens, then there is a neutral problem. If the 240 V bulb dims and only one of the two 120 V dims, then there is one hot line problem. And so on.

If voltages look good at the panel input, then the problem is the internal wiring and/or how the circuits are organized.

.
 
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Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
iwire said:
I would not jump to any conclusions, it takes darn little voltage sag for our eyes to see it in incandescent lamps. I would use some type of recording meter (Fluke 87 for me) and see what the actual dip is.
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I agree. A relative minor supply voltage dip will catch the eye, and maybe the reduced voltage used by the dimmed lamps exacerbates the effect.
A UPS could fix the problem and there are dimmers around that offer stabilisation - as a company we make such things (but I'm not touting for business here).

for Fulthrotl:
If it's a hole-in-the wall and serves excellent food, accept it as part of the ambience and worth tolerating to eat well.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
iwire said:
I think accept the ambiance is a great suggestion.
IMO no inexpensive UPS will fix this. You would need a online/double conversion UPS or line interactive UPS.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But what is the total lighting load in dining area of the restaurant if it really is a "hole in the wall" kinda place?
 
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