Anymore combo AFCI problems?

[peter d]

I was wondering if anyone (besides Scott) has had any troubles with the new AFCI's?

 

[mdshunk]

I've had a few problems getting them.

It also seems like there aren't any 2-pole combo AFCI's, which might be a problem down the road.

 

[cschmid]

one problem they are still like 60 to 75 dollars..

 

[stickboy1375]

one problem they are still like 60 to 75 dollars..

Why is that a problem?

 

[peter d]

one problem they are still like 60 to 75 dollars..

I've never seen the non-SqD ones cost more than $35 at HD/Lowes.

 

[peter d]

Why is that a problem?

Maybe because he's buying them to put on a shelf and admire?

 

[cschmid]

we have home depot but no others..small town USA we finally got another supply house now there are 2 in a hundred miles..

 

[wbalsam1]

In NY State, we can still use the branch-feeder afci's in one- and two-family dwellings because we're on the RCNYS which uses the same text as the 2002 NEC.

However, for multiple dwelling apartment units which are covered by the BCNYS which references the 2005 NEC, we had to discontinue using the branch/feeder afci's as of January 1st, 2008.

 

[ishium 80439]

We don't start needing them here in CO until July when they adopt the '08. Hopefully by then the majority of bugs will be worked out. As a general question about these... If someone plugs in a vacuum for instance and the switch is in the on position, will that trip the AFCI?

It also seems like there aren't any 2-pole combo AFCI's, which might be a problem down the road.

Another question I hope someone can answer involves MWBC's. Since wire manufacturer's started producing `14/2/2 and 12/2/2 I assumed that the 3-wire HR was a thing of the past now, but can you use a 2-pole AFCI with a 3 wire HR? If so why would anyone use 14/2/2? If not why would they produce 2-pole AFCI's?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The cost of the two pole AFCIs is way more than the cost of two single pole AFCIs.

 

[ishium 80439]

The cost of the two pole AFCIs is way more than the cost of two single pole AFCIs.

What are the price differences? And does it even out any when you take the added cost of additional wire and the labor for terminating into account? It's great to have this forum to benfit from others experiences. When this requirement hits this area I'd like to be able to hit the proverbial ground running. Thanks for the input.

 

[haskindm]

We don't start needing them here in CO until July when they adopt the '08. Hopefully by then the majority of bugs will be worked out. As a general question about these... If someone plugs in a vacuum for instance and the switch is in the on position, will that trip the AFCI?

Combination Type AFCI were required beginning January 1, 2008 by the 2005 NEC. So if your jurisdiction adopted the 2005 code and did not exempt this section, they have been required since January 1.

 

[Greg Swartz]

Colorado Springs

Colorado Springs

Yes, combo units are required as of January 1st.

I have been told that CH makes a 2 pole AFCI... I have not confirmed since I like Square D.

In Colorado Springs, July will be the change over date to the 2008NEC.

I keep asking inspectors how they want us to handle basment remodels with older panels... I get no answer...

I have had newer issues since we do a lot of sunrooms (yes in Colorado where it even snowed last week!). One of the houses had a FPE 200A stab lock panel... How do I fit an AFCI in that? (And don't tell me to push harder... I got to get the panel cover on too!)

I guess that's my question... In remodels, where the HO does not want to upgrade / change out the panel, how do I comply? AFCIs everywhere...

 

[haskindm]

Check with AHJ to see at what point AFCI is required in an existing dwelling.
If it is required, set a small sub-panel for new circuits requiring AFCI.

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

http://www.wikipatents.com/6590754.html
This patent seems to admit a problem with AFCIs, and they've put considerable money where their mouth is. I guess you could search for patents that also fix [non-existent] combo AFCI problems.

So, the quest for riches works both ways:
manufacturers make money by squelching bad news about their products, and
others make money by patenting new products that are supposed to solve the non-existent problems of existing products.

Alice's "Wonderland" was supposed to be fiction.

 

[cschmid]

The wonderful wonderful world of AFCI..It may have the best intentions but it application kind of sucks..I am thinking custom job and good luck man..

edited: i type to slow but I like the Alice wonderland comparison..

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

. . .forgot to close the loop

. . .forgot to close the loop

A manufacturer sells products that [despite his intentions or maybe because of them] turn out not to work too well.
He then uses his oily marketing people to fend off customer complaints while he is beating his engineers with sticks until they fix the problem.
When they improve the product, the manufacturer patents the new device but ensures that his name does not appear anywhere on the patent.
When all the old stock is used up, he unveils the new product while still denying that there was anything at all wrong with the old product.

No wonder the Cheshire Cat is grinning.

 

[electricmanscott]

I was wondering if anyone (besides Scott) has had any troubles with the new AFCI's?

I'm STILL battling the issues on the same two jobs that I was posting about a few months ago.

 

[iwire]

I'm STILL battling the issues on the same two jobs that I was posting about a few months ago.

At least your busy ....... :grin:

 

[480sparky]

I've had a few problems getting them.

It also seems like there aren't any 2-pole combo AFCI's, which might be a problem down the road.

Do they even make them for your beloved PushMatric panels?

I picked up two Sq. D 15a HOs ($34 or thereabouts) today that were labeled as combination type. Installed them on two existing house circuits without any problems...