Anymore combo AFCI problems?

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haskindm said:
Combination Type AFCI were required beginning January 1, 2008 by the 2005 NEC. So if your jurisdiction adopted the 2005 code and did not exempt this section, they have been required since January 1.
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My face is red. That fact escaped me entirely. I haven't had an inspector bring this up to me yet either. I guess I'll try to pay more attention next time.

Anyone have any input regarding my earlier Q about 2-pole AFCI's vs 14/2/2?
 
i know there's a lot of talk on here about problems w/ the afci, but I haven't had any problems that couldn't be fixed, except for the tripping vacuum cleaner. I've had leaky ceiling fans cause them to trip, as well as wires touching terminals they weren't supposed to, and the occasional overtightened clamp. But I've really made it a point over the past couple of years to really watch out for these things during the rough. In the past 12/mo, I've had as many nuissance trips as fingers on one hand (except for bad fans/fixtures). And they all took less than 10 minutes to find and correct. I was against the AFCI rule when I first heard about the '08 proposal, but I can honestly say I've changed my tune. I think reading about everyone else's problems made me worry about what affect it could have on me, but I've come to realize I won't be bothered by the new code. Now, as for old work updating, I might be reluctant to go along w/ a code making me retrofit the entire house w/ AFCI's; And probably the only reason is because it seems impossible right now to price that job up front and not lose your shirt. I don't think its fair to say to the customer, "its going to take $xxx.xx per hour and I have no clue how many hours it will take." I've said this once before and I'll say it again, I really think NEMA needs to do some sort of public awareness campaign on the AFCI technology. Right now, its only us EC's who are having to relay the info to our customers, and I think our customers may be a little more trusting and accepting of this if they heard about the benefits straight from the manufacturers. I don't know what that would cost, but @ $35+ per breaker I'm sure they can afford it. :) Do like the dairy and beef farmers and chip in a few bucks every year for the ad campaign.

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As for the manufacturer advertising of the AFCI, I would be satisfied with some sort of brochure that I can give to the customer explaining what exactly it does. Sure I could probably make this, but I think they could come up with something a little more professional than I.
 
ishium 80439 said:
Another question I hope someone can answer involves MWBC's. Since wire manufacturer's started producing `14/2/2 and 12/2/2 I assumed that the 3-wire HR was a thing of the past now, but can you use a 2-pole AFCI with a 3 wire HR?
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Yes. If you dont mind both circuits being AFCI protection.

ishium 80439 said:
If so why would anyone use 14/2/2? If not why would they produce 2-pole AFCI's?
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Cost difference between a 2 pole and a single pole would be my guess, or if the panel brand you use does not make 2 pole AFCI's, But you still wanted to take advantage of the labor savings of pulling a 14/2/2 cable.
 
brantmacga there are brochures on the manufactures web site you can print off..also on NPFA has some brochures..

I still think they have cart before horse..Good idea but not all the bugs out..kind of like when the GFCI first came out..I still think we should not be required to put them in old work areas unless the whole circuit is is being reworked..because you will most likely rework the whole circuit to get it to work..
 
cschmid said:
I still think we should not be required to put them in old work areas unless the whole circuit is is being reworked..because you will most likely rework the whole circuit to get it to work..
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Is that really a bad thing to fix bad wiring?
 
NO and Yes..If a home owner tears out a wall and remodels two rooms..Home owners want you to move two receptacles to new location..why should you have to rework the whole entire circuit to get an AFCI to work..The circuit has worked for years on the regular breaker and there have been no problems..so why should the home owner have to incur the extra cost..Just because a bunch of politicians decided to make a new rule..
 
cschmid said:
NO and Yes..If a home owner tears out a wall and remodels two rooms..Home owners want you to move two receptacles to new location..why should you have to rework the whole entire circuit to get an AFCI to work..The circuit has worked for years on the regular breaker and there have been no problems..so why should the home owner have to incur the extra cost..Just because a bunch of politicians decided to make a new rule..
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Because of a grounding wire touching a grounded conductor? Gezzz, I dont know, I'm actually glad they are enforcing AFCI's everywhere, it will hopefully keep the sloppy electricians in-line.


Also, are you out to make money or not? God, I hate the business part of this trade.
 
I dont like big brother forcing regulations down peoples throat..But if it gets sloopy unlicensed hacks out I am in favor..Yet there are enough unlicensed hacks doing work and they dont care about the laws..so as EC we are going to lose more of the little jobs that are good filler jobs..
 
stickboy1375 said:
Because of a grounding wire touching a grounded conductor? Gezzz, I dont know, I'm actually glad they are enforcing AFCI's everywhere, it will hopefully keep the sloppy electricians in-line.


Also, are you out to make money or not? God, I hate the business part of this trade.
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Have you been using them?
 
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