Anyone else mandating 200A....?

Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
One of our local jurisdictions started requiring 200A service and sub panel (if any used), regardless of the size of the dwelling or what the calculation comes out to.

750sqft ADU slap a 200A service on it with full size 3/0 conductors.

A duplex and an ADU (400A) service with 600 kcmil service conductors.

Any of your jurisdictions requiring 200A regardless of the load calcs are?

TIA
 
The CA Energy cod requires the buss bars of the main panel supplying all single-family residences that include one or two dwelling units to have a minimum rating of 225 amps. There is no minimum size for panels after the main included the panel at the second dwelling.

Which AHJ is requiring all panels to be rated for 200 amps?
 
hillbilly1 said:
Nobody around here does the calculations LOL! If it’s a big house, they just throw in a 400 amp service.
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Same here. When my daughter was having a 1900 SQFT house built, the plans called for a 400A service even with gas for heat, hot water, and range. I told her have them change it to a 200. I don’t remember the exact savings, but I think it was a few thousand.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Nobody around here does the calculations LOL! If it’s a big house, they just throw in a 400 amp service.
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Well same here, most eyeball it unless the inspector asks for the calculation. However there is no automatic minimum of 200 amps for the service.
 
curt swartz said:
The CA Energy cod requires the buss bars of the main panel supplying all single-family residences that include one or two dwelling units to have a minimum rating of 225 amps. There is no minimum size for panels after the main included the panel at the second dwelling.

Which AHJ is requiring all panels to be rated for 200 amps?
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Just a guess but maybe they are planning for all new homes in California to not have natural gas in 8 years followed by making all existing homes 15 years later stop using natural gas and then a large number of them to convert to electric heat, water heaters, dryers & stoves. Will be interesting to see if foot dragging utility companies will have new generation stations & transmission lines on line by then. Of course the hard to get distribution transformers will pose another problem. I know they have devices that will shed EV chargers when other loads are high but wonder if a 2 to 4,000 square foot all electric house with two 50 amp EV charger might need a 300 amp service.
 
garbo said:
Just a guess but maybe they are planning for all new homes in California to not have natural gas in 8 years followed by making all existing homes 15 years later stop using natural gas and then a large number of them to convert to electric heat, water heaters, dryers & stoves. Will be interesting to see if foot dragging utility companies will have new generation stations & transmission lines on line by then. Of course the hard to get distribution transformers will pose another problem. I know they have devices that will shed EV chargers when other loads are high but wonder if a 2 to 4,000 square foot all electric house with two 50 amp EV charger might need a 300 amp service.
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I found out last night that's what it is.

Even when I do my load calcs to include all electric, the inspector still wants a 200A with full size service conductors.
 
We have wired many all electric ADU's and never needed more than 100 amps unless we are also feeding other loads such as swimming pool equipment, patio heaters, etc.. The inspector needs to back up his requirements with actual code requirements.
 
garbo said:
Just a guess but maybe they are planning for all new homes in California to not have natural gas in 8 years followed by making all existing homes 15 years later stop using natural gas and then a large number of them to convert to electric heat, water heaters, dryers & stoves. Will be interesting to see if foot dragging utility companies will have new generation stations & transmission lines on line by then. Of course the hard to get distribution transformers will pose another problem. I know they have devices that will shed EV chargers when other loads are high but wonder if a 2 to 4,000 square foot all electric house with two 50 amp EV charger might need a 300 amp service.
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Not to mention electric price is already super high here and lower middle class people can't afford their electric bill now.

There was a new apartment complex proposed here which is of course where lower middle class people live. The city approved it being all electric in the name of being green. The developer or somebody later got it changed to normal gas pointing out that the people would not be able to afford to live there.
 
retirede said:
Same here. When my daughter was having a 1900 SQFT house built, the plans called for a 400A service even with gas for heat, hot water, and range. I told her have them change it to a 200. I don’t remember the exact savings, but I think it was a few thousand.
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We don’t have natural gas within around 50 miles of here, so if it ends up being gas, it’s propane, and usually when they do that, it’s so they can get away with a smaller generator.
 
curt swartz said:
The CA Energy cod requires the buss bars of the main panel supplying all single-family residences that include one or two dwelling units to have a minimum rating of 225 amps.
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2025 CA Energy Code 150.0(s) "Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS) Ready" only imposes that requirement if the "load-serving entity provides with electrical service for the dwelling unit that is greater than 125 amps." So you can still use a 125A main panel if it calcs out. And even if you need more than 125A, the requirement for the busbar to be rated 225A does not require 225A conductors or main breaker.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
2025 CA Energy Code 150.0(s) "Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS) Ready" only imposes that requirement if the "load-serving entity provides with electrical service for the dwelling unit that is greater than 125 amps." So you can still use a 125A main panel if it calcs out. And even if you need more than 125A, the requirement for the busbar to be rated 225A does not require 225A conductors or main breaker.

Cheers, Wayne
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He doesn't seem to understand and doesn't want to get off of his horse.
 
wwhitney said:
2025 CA Energy Code 150.0(s) "Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS) Ready" only imposes that requirement if the "load-serving entity provides with electrical service for the dwelling unit that is greater than 125 amps." So you can still use a 125A main panel if it calcs out. And even if you need more than 125A, the requirement for the busbar to be rated 225A does not require 225A conductors or main breaker.

Cheers, Wayne
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Purchasing is not my skill set, but wouldn't a 125A panel with a 225A busbar be an odd duck, and more expensive than a straight up 200A panel with full size conductors?
 
wwhitney said:
That is never required by the text that I quoted. It says that if the service is greater than 125A, you must provide a 225A busbar. So 125A main breaker with 125A busbar is fine.

Cheers, Wayne
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And the service for each unit is not greater than 125A.

After pushing back, now he says make it easier and install a 3 meter bank enclosure. IMO that defeats the purpose of "getting ready for future CA electrification" as quoted earlier.
 
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