Anyone know the voltage on a 120v battery backup smoke or carbon signal wire?

[JohnDS]

I am actually not near one to test, but I was wondering off hand if anyone knows what volatge the red signal wire would send once the smoke alarm or carbon alarm would sound.

I am going to hook this red signal wire up to a relay to turn off a 120v boiler circuit when the smoke or carbons alarm sounds. I am thinking that I would tap the red and white from smoke alarm and hook to the proper voltage relay(whatever the signal voltage is), and hook the boiler's 120v line to the NC terminal on the relay. I appreciate the help.

This is for a home, btw.
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[iwire]

I am actually not near one to test, but I was wondering off hand if anyone knows what volatge the red signal wire would send once the smoke alarm or carbon alarm would sound.

I am going to hook this red signal wire up to a relay to turn off a 120v boiler circuit when the smoke or carbons alarm sounds. I am thinking that I would tap the red and white from smoke alarm and hook to the proper voltage relay(whatever the signal voltage is), and hook the boiler's 120v line to the NC terminal on the relay. I appreciate the help.

This is for a home, btw.
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Most times 9 volt DC.

However your idea is a code violation and could come back to bite you.

Purchase the relay from the same company that makes the smoke detectors because then the relay will be listed for use with the smokes.

The companies make the relays for doing things like tripping other alarms or driving a stobe light etc.

 

[JohnDS]

Thank you. I believe the brand is Kiddie. I am going to contact them and see if they offer such relay. In any event, worse case they do not, are there 9v relays available that will open a 120v circuit? Where can I get?

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[augie47]

http://shopkidde17.reachlocal.net/accessories/sm120x-relay-module-for-smoke-alarm.html

 

[iwire]

Thank you. I believe the brand is Kiddie. I am going to contact them and see if they offer such relay. In any event, worse case they do not, are there 9v relays available that will open a 120v circuit? Where can I get?

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Here is one from Kiddie

http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en.../safety-accessories/auxiliary-devices/sm120x/

You will likely need to use that Kiddie relay to drive a larger relay / contractor that can handle the voltage and current of the load you want to control.

I am not saying you could not make your own system using a relay with the right coil voltage just pointing out it is a listing violation and therefore a NEC 110.3(B) violation to connect anything to the smoke alarms that is not a listed accessory to the unit.

As you can see the Kiddie relay is very small which leads me to think the coil on it has to be very low current for the smoke alarms to drive them. It might even be a solid state relay. If you chose a different relay it might take too much current to operate it or it might even stop the interconnect signal from tripping other detectors during an alarm.

 

[JohnDS]

I appreciate that advice and this looks like exactly what I need.

At first I was wondering why I couldn't hook the boiler circuit directly up to this relay but after looking at the schematic, its clear why I would need a separate relay. Its because the boiler is on a separate 120v circuit than the smoke's 120v circuit(unless of course i put the boiler circuit on with the smokes circuit), but that wouldnt be a good idea since the boiler circuit is dedicated and would like to keep it that way. Atleast I think I am correct with the above?

Thank you for the help guys.

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[JohnDS]

I actually just noticed they also have a CO120x relay as well. I dont see why they are any different. But I do want to point out that there are other smokes and carbons on this system as well. The particular device i will be using for the boiler is actually a smoke and it is in the boiler room. Not sure what the co120x would be used for.

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[JohnDS]

Does this mean that if a CO detector alarms that it will not activate the sm120x? I dont see why not since the system uses one signal wire. Unless of course the CO signal sends a different voltage down the red wire than the smokes do. What do you think? I am looking for this to work whether it is activated by a smoke or CO.

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[cadpoint]

...The particular device i will be using for the boiler is actually a smoke and it is in the boiler room.

I might be wrong but I believe that you need to use heat detector and not a smoke in the immediate area and not over the boiler. You can add a smoke in the same room on the far side of the area. JMO.

 

[mgookin]

I got slightly lost in the thread but that's ok.

If you are looking to source a relay, there are some really good parametric search options available online.
DigiKey is one and Tyco is another. I find the DigiKey site easier to navigate and sort. Once you have a part number, you can source it from whoever you want. Octopart will tell you who has stock. Since you're just buying one, I wouldn't think price is a significant consideration.

Up to 2 amps http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/relays/signal-relays-up-to-2-amps/1049448
Over 2 amps http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/relays/power-relays-over-2-amps/1049447

We use LOTS of relays. We buy them 50k pcs at a time.

 

[JohnDS]

Thanks guys.

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[iwire]

I got slightly lost in the thread but that's ok.

Yeah you must be lost if you are suggesting buying an off the shelf relay and adding it to the interconnect circuit of a smoke alarm system.

That would be a violation.

 

[mgookin]

Yeah you must be lost if you are suggesting buying an off the shelf relay and adding it to the interconnect circuit of a smoke alarm system.

That would be a violation.

Of the listing or of a code?

 

[JohnDS]

Ok guys,

Thanks for all the help. I see that kiddie sells both a SM120x and a CO120x. Just to reiterate, there are multiple smoke and CO detectors throughout home. Plan is to have boiler circuit turn off if COs or smokes sense a fault. Kiddie states that you need "both" relays(sm120x and co120x) because a CO detector will not trigger the sm120x relay and a smoke detector will not trigger co120x relay even though they are all interconnected. My question to the experts on this forum is:

Since obviously the boiler is on a separate circuit from the smokes and COs, I will need the both kiddie relays to trigger a common relay that will consequently turn off boiler circuit. My question is, can I wire these two kiddie relays(sm120x and co120x) in parallel so that they both turn off the common relay that is controlling boiler circuit? I am a little confused about that. I have posted links to manuals for sm120x and co120x.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/676071/Kidde-Sm120x.html#manual

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/676045/Kidde-Co120x.html

 

[drcampbell]

If the normally-closed contacts are wired in parallel, the boiler will turn off only when carbon monoxide AND smoke are detected simultaneously. To turn off the boiler when either smoke OR monoxide is detected, wire them in series.

 

[gadfly56]

Here is one from Kiddie

http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en.../safety-accessories/auxiliary-devices/sm120x/

You will likely need to use that Kiddie relay to drive a larger relay / contractor that can handle the voltage and current of the load you want to control.

I am not saying you could not make your own system using a relay with the right coil voltage just pointing out it is a listing violation and therefore a NEC 110.3(B) violation to connect anything to the smoke alarms that is not a listed accessory to the unit.

As you can see the Kiddie relay is very small which leads me to think the coil on it has to be very low current for the smoke alarms to drive them. It might even be a solid state relay. If you chose a different relay it might take too much current to operate it or it might even stop the interconnect signal from tripping other detectors during an alarm.

Good for 10 amps non-inductive at 120VAC.

 

[JohnDS]

If the normally-closed contacts are wired in parallel, the boiler will turn off only when carbon monoxide AND smoke are detected simultaneously. To turn off the boiler when either smoke OR monoxide is detected, wire them in series.

Good point. That makes sense. So basically it would be wired so sm120x relay will control co120x relay, and then co120x will control relay for boiler circuit?

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[topgone]

Good point. That makes sense. So basically it would be wired so sm120x relay will control co120x relay, and then co120x will control relay for boiler circuit?

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Nope. What @drcampbell wanted to say is that both contacts of the two detectors (smoke and CO) will be connected in series, making the boiler trip circuit dependent on "both" contacts being "closed" at the very moment -->detected both smoke and CO.

 

[mgookin]

Nope. What @drcampbell wanted to say is that both contacts of the two detectors (smoke and CO) will be connected in series, making the boiler trip circuit dependent on "both" contacts being "closed" at the very moment -->detected both smoke and CO.

That's confusing the way you said that.

He wants it so that if either relay opens, the boiler shuts down. To accomplish this, the boiler circuit should be in series through both relays so that if either one of the two (or both of the two) open(s), the boiler shuts down.

 

[qcroanoke]

Just putting this out there.
Those relays do not latch when in alarm. As soon as the smoke or CO2 clear the relays go back to their de-energized position. Not sure if the boiler would like that.