Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

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George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Scott, yes it has a switch, for a keyless, and a receptacle for the garage door opener in each bay.

That "building" definition bugs me. :)
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Well here's some good old fashioned CMP 2 codage.

Would the door opener receptacle on the ceiling handle it?

Or. Does this strange comment:

See 210.8(A)(2) and (A)(5).

Mean that Exception No. 1 to (A)(5) is to be taken as a requirement that it's readily accessible? :confused:

Because if it is, I don't know if I could come up with a more ambiguous way to say it.
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Yeah, that's right.

I don't think this is too bad, as far as the garage door opener not being able to serve as the 210.52(G) receptacle. It seems pretty clear to me.

How would you word it better?
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

I don't know. I didn't get enough sleep last night. I thought I was gonna look at it and give you my take on it but now I just feel all
stars.gif
.

So does it have to be readily accessible? Cause I'm not sure yet.

Edit: 210.8 is about GFI. Why would I be sent there to find out about readily accessable?

And it doesn't say that section has any impact on 210.52(G). It just says to take a look. Not that it changes anything.

[ July 16, 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Doesn't it just mean that if the receptacle is readily accessible that it has to be GFI?
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Sam,

So does it have to be readily accessible? Cause I'm not sure yet.
Edit: 210.8 is about GFI. Why would I be sent there to find out about readily accessable?
I had a solid reply to this half done when that stupid dog at my feet really wedged himself under the desk and shut off the surge protector. So this one is going to be equally long, but not as satisfying. :D

Essentially, we've got two forces at work. We have an appliance (or several) first, and beyond that, we have 210.52 making general requirements for receptacle placements

In a nutshell, since outlets that aren't readily accessible are exempt from GFI protection, the garage door opener (which by 210.50(C) has to be within 6' of the appliance which is rendered moot by physics, since it needs to be closer than that anyway) which has to be in the ceiling, is not readily accessible (according to Article 100).

So, by exception 2, we'd have to use a single receptacle.

But because of exception 1, we can install a non-GFI-protected duplex, because it's not readily accessible.

210.8(A)(2) is kind enough to let us know that this receptacle in the ceiling or for a freezer is exactly what they had in mind when they included the exceptions, and that someone shouldn't be forced to unplug their garage door opener or a freezer to plug in their metal-cased drill in the garage.

Here's another take: Picture a house with no outlets, and we're starting from the ground up, drawing them in on the plans. 210.50 is first section in Part III. So we start there. We look for every appliance in the house, and draw in a receptacle within 6' of it.

If we stopped there, we'd have a naked house, because all the other receptacles are for transient appliances, that move around and can never be trusted to be in a given place. So 210.52 kicks in. Going down the list to (G), filling in the plans, we start to get receptacles all over the place.

Once we arrive at (G), we already noticed that (A)-(F) didn't include the garage, so until this point there has been no readily accessible receptacle required by Part III. Now, there is just one receptacle required, accessible or not. Well, I have one, for the garage door. But I need to look at 210.8 to get the full story, according to (G).

I feel like I'm spinning wheels. Hope it helped. :p

I don't think this is too tricky, in comparison to 210.52(B) and that area. A little tweak could be in order, I guess.
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Well I appreciate your fanciful tour of the building plans. :D

And agree it's not very complicated. I'm not sure what I was so confused by earlier.

But as far as I can see the reference to 210.8 has no meaning beyond reminding us to use GFI protection.

What wording do you get the impression it has to be readily accessible from?

I'm not saying it isn't a little silly to require a receptacle and allow it to be on the ceiling.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

My question is why would anyone build s detachted garage with no power for lights and/or recps ;)
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

If that were the case there'd be no debate.

As it is, there's lights, there's garage door opener receptacles.

Why no GFI: Builder is cheap. :D
 

benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

George,

Did you ever find out if these were appts.,townhouses,condo's etc.

frank
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

I actually had half the staff out there today, among them was the inspector that had told me the story. We discussed two topics, and this one slipped my mind. :D

Next time, I'll try to remember.
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

2446 posts, that's the first time I've duplicate posted. :p

[ July 19, 2005, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 

mc5w

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

If a townhome has a certain rating firewall between the next townhome, then it is legally a single family dwelling and an individual building under most building codes I know.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

The part of that article that saya a detached garage with power,doesn`i say it has to have power and doesn`t say it has to.But if there is a service door there has to be illumination.How about a flood light fom the detached house.The code says there has to be a light but the switch can be anywhere and a motion flod can take care of that too :p
 

George Stolz

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Re: Apartments, 210.52, and Detached Garages, Oh my!

Originally posted by allenwayne:
But if there is a service door there has to be illumination.
Silly. :)

If there's no power at the garage, then the NEC wouldn't apply to it. Couple that with the fact that article 210 makes reference to detached garages "with power," confirming it.
 
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