Appliance Cord thru the cabinet panel

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dnem

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A contractor told me yesterday that his inspection failed because he drilled thru the cabinet panel and ran the microwave cord to a plug inside the cabinet. . What do you think, was the writeup correct ?

If your answer is yes, what do you think about this ? . If he mounts the micro to the bottom of the cabinet and drills up into the cabinet to plug his cord inside, it gets passed. . This time he came for the final and the cabinet guy built an open shelf for him to set the micro on, which he did, and then he did his usual drill up into the cabinet to plug his cord inside. . This time it gets failed.

Is there support for cord-thru-panel for perm mount but no cord-thru-panel for lay-in place ?

David
 
I just replaced the microwave above my stove. The instructions that came with the microwave called for a hole to be drilled in the cabinet above. Going into another wall, rather than the bottom, is not a violation.
 
I've thought this over and looked thru the code and this is where I stand right now.

The inspector that failed the contractor didn't give a code article but my guess would be he was thinking about 400.8(2).

400 - Flexible Cords and Cables
400.8 Uses Not Permitted
400.8(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, or floors

So the interpretation is that the cabinet panels are "walls", but I'm going to dispute that concept and here's how.

422.16(B)(2)(4) says that a built-in dishwasher [or trash compactor] cord can be plugged into a receptacle "located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto". . The way to plug in a cord in an "adjacent thereto" space is to drill a hole in the panel.

Now I know that some will say 422.16(B)(2) is dishwasher / compactor specific but the point that I'm thinking is that 422.16(B)(2)(4) is neither a listed exception to 400.8(2) nor is it in conflict with 400.8(2).

So what interpretation would allow 422.16(B)(2)(4) to not be in conflict with 400.8(2) ? . I'm proposing that a cabinet panel is not a wall, therefore no conflict between 422.16(B)(2)(4) + 400.8(2).
422.16(B)(2)(4) prevents cords thru walls.
400.8(2) allows cords thru cabinet panels.
This would mean that the fact that 422.16(B)(2) is specific to dishwashers + compactors doesn't prevent microwave cords [or other non-dishwasher / compactor cords] from running thru panel holes because cabinet panels aren't walls.

What do you think of that reasoning ?

David
 
dcspector said:
A hole in a cabinet for an appliance cord does not violate the intent of 400.8(2) if that is what you are asking.
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Whether I agree with you or not, it's hard to "sell" the concept of "intent" on this message board. . Usually the "intent" argument attracts sharks around here.

David
 
dnem said:
Whether I agree with you or not, it's hard to "sell" the concept of "intent" on this message board. . Usually the "intent" argument attracts sharks around here.

David
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I have been around here long enough and know the deal......Sharks? ...how about chum.....
 
Sharks I have some shark-mail you know the stuff mike rowe demonstrated then when the sharks bite it wont draw blood..I do not see a violation here maybe if you ran all the way accross the cabinet to another cabinet but other wise..Now the real question is was it a factory cord or a piece of SO cord with an end put on it..would that violate the code..
 
charlie b said:
Going into another wall, rather than the bottom, is not a violation.
Click to expand...
dnem said:
I don't understand. . Restate your point.
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David, I agree with your take on the situation. My use of the word ?wall? may have been the cause of confusion. I meant the wall of the cabinet, not a wall of the house. In the context of not putting a flexible cord through a wall, I agree that the word ?wall? means a wall of the house.

Consider this: My microwave is suspended under a wooden cabinet, above the stove. The cord goes through a hole in the bottom of the cabinet, as I said earlier. But it is plugged into a receptacle outlet that is located in the wall (I mean the kitchen wall) behind the cabinet. There is a rectangular hole cut into the cabinet (i.e., the rear ?wall? of the cabinet), and the hole surrounds the receptacle outlet and its cover plate. Therefore, the microwave oven?s power cord has to pass through a hole in the back of the cabinet, in order to plug into a receptacle outlet mounted within the wall space. If I ever replace the kitchen cabinets, I am going to have to get a hole cut into the cabinet above the stove, in order to be able to plug in the microwave. This is no more a violation than what the Inspector has (incorrectly) cited in the OP?s description.
 
cschmid said:
Sharks I have some shark-mail you know the stuff mike rowe demonstrated then when the sharks bite it wont draw blood..I do not see a violation here maybe if you ran all the way accross the cabinet to another cabinet but other wise..Now the real question is was it a factory cord or a piece of SO cord with an end put on it..would that violate the code..
Click to expand...

If you removed the factory existing cord to install a length of cord and install a separate cord cap, you would violate the appliance listing by removing the factory cord.

But if the appliance came without a cord, what would be the violation of a length of cord and a separate cord cap ? . Couldn't you either buy a complete whip with a molded cord cap or buy a length of cord and a separate cord cap ?

David
 
That is what I was referring to if the dishwasher came without the cord. but the original poster did not say so if you were the inspector and seen a length of so cord and a non factory plug on it then would he say it was a violation..so if you added cord with factory plug it would look original and might not be an issue..that was my thought process even though we know there is no difference except looks..but yet the OP was talking a microwave and I have never seen one with out the cord..
 
cschmid said:
so if you were the inspector and seen a length of so cord and a non factory plug on it then would he say it was a violation..so if you added cord with factory plug it would look original and might not be an issue.
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I myself don't labor the UL listed cord issue with the contractor. . The only time I would bring it up is if I see it's blatant or causing other issues. . As an example, if I saw a 15' cord on a microwave because the plug was located 15' away, that would get my attention and would be a violation of UL listing 110.3(B) and also 210.50(C) and probably also 400.8(1). . And a disposal cord would be limited by 422.16(B)(1)(2) and a dishwasher by 422.16(B)(2)(2).

But I try not to break my ruler out unless I see trouble.

David
 
cschmid said:
so if you added cord with factory plug it would look original and might not be an issue..that was my thought process even though we know there is no difference except looks..but yet the OP was talking a microwave and I have never seen one with out the cord..
Click to expand...

"a microwave and I have never seen one with out the cord"
I haven't either. . Cabinets are often jammed full of crap so the cord cap will most likely be sandwiched between flammable stuff so being a molded cap might be important.

I would be slow to write it up and give it some thought, but I think it would have to be replaced by a molded cap for me to not think about the 110.3(B) listing issue.

David
 
dnem said:
Cabinets are often jammed full of crap so the cord cap will most likely be sandwiched between flammable stuff so being a molded cap might be important.
Click to expand...

I can't even imagine how a molded cord cap will be any better then a field installed one.

Don't sweat the small stuff. :smile:
 
dnem said:
I'm proposing that a cabinet panel is not a wall, therefore no conflict between 422.16(B)(2)(4) + 400.8(2).
422.16(B)(2)(4) prevents cords thru walls.
400.8(2) allows cords thru cabinet panels.
This would mean that the fact that 422.16(B)(2) is specific to dishwashers + compactors doesn't prevent microwave cords [or other non-dishwasher / compactor cords] from running thru panel holes because cabinet panels aren't walls.

What do you think of that reasoning ?

David
Click to expand...


I agree. A cabinet is not a wall. End of story. The inspector was wrong on this one.
 
dnem said:
If you removed the factory existing cord to install a length of cord and install a separate cord cap, you would violate the appliance listing by removing the factory cord.
Click to expand...

It is not possible to violate a Listing. A UL Label simply states that the appliance conformed to the applicable UL standard when the device was shipped from the factory. Any field modification of a UL device may or may not affect it to the point that it no longer meets the standard under which the label was granted. You would have to contact UL and have them evaluate the modified installation.

It is up to the AHJ to determine if the installation meets the requirements of the NEC. Any third party label is simply one tool the AHJ may use in their evaluation (and yes, I know some local codes have additional language concerning listings).

So what NEC article would you cite that says a factory installed flexible cord can not be replaced with a field installed flexible cord?
 
jim dungar said:
It is not possible to violate a Listing. A UL Label simply states that the appliance conformed to the applicable UL standard when the device was shipped from the factory.
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The "shorthand" term used in the industry is "violates the listing" but you're right, it doesn't actually violate the listing, rather it doesn't meet the specs of the listing because of field modification.

jim dungar said:
So what NEC article would you cite that says a factory installed flexible cord can not be replaced with a field installed flexible cord?
Click to expand...

The applicable article/section would be 110.3(B) because it doesn't meet the specs of the listing because of field modification. . But as I said, I'm not interested in checking the specs of a molded cord unless it looks like it might be causing a problem.

David
 
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