Apprentice troubles...

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kpepin

kpepin

Senior Member
Here is my situation...

I work for a small company (about 20 electricians) that does mainly commercial and industrial work. I have had to work with apprentices with varying experience. My problem is, it doesn't seem like some of them are ready for thier exam when their apprenticeship time is up. Don't get me wrong, they are more than capable of doing the work properly, they just don't understand why they are doing it other than, it is how they were shown how to do something. I keep trying to throw code questions at them pertaining to the job they are working on but nothing seems to stick.

Usually, we don't have to time to stop and look things up in the code but I try to at break and lunch. I think the problem is, most of them were hired out of a Technical High School and by the time they are ready to go for their test, they haven't look at the code book for 4 years.

Are there any good online resources (besides here) where I can get information to pass on to these apprentices to help them prepare? I kind of feel like I have failed when one of these kids come to work after taking their test and failed.

Any help would be appreciated
 
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Seriously though, its not your problem, its theirs. If you don't crack a book you don't pass a test. When they can't earn a decent wage because they don't have a license they will be motivated to open a book.
 
It sort of is my problem. Isn't it the job of the licensed electrician to teach the apprentice? Not to mention when they do get their license and have to work on their own and screw someting up, it looks bad for the entire company, possibly costing the company future work.
I am fortunate to have profit sharing where I work. If they have to do things over because they fail an inspection, part of that cost comes out of my pocket.
 
If your doing service Yes they really need to know their stuff. For me new construction was monkey see monkey do work. Of course I wonder how some guys get by, I am not a teacher by any means. If someone doesn't want to learn I don't waste my time. Just "hey a$$hol^ is that hot". Most EC pay to send their apprentices to ABC school at nights. I will never work for a company that doesn't help educate guys I wouldn't waste my time offering my service to them. I worked for a company in the past, I called the shop and asked about lockout tagout for a job, they responded "Why do you need that". Having uneducated guys around is a hazard. I guess that goes back to having QUALIFIED electricians.

Have you tried telling them to install something then come back in an hour or say and if it's wrong tell them to tear it out. and point the flaws.

I went to a 18 month technical school and passed my J-man for WV without working a day in the field. LOL now that is messed up. I passed my WV master after 5 years in the field. My field has kinda drifted away from the Code book. There is so much out there.

Just my 2 cent
 
If the cubbies don't want to take the time to learn, ask questions and open a book (or get on the 'net these days), there isn't much you can do. Just like jwelectric said. But as soon as someone reveals they truly want to learn, take on that mentor role seriously and remember there's a reason we're called Masters and they're called Apprentices.
Unfortunately, these days most kids are in it only for payday. No career, no goals, no ambition. Just a paycheck every week so they can pay their text-messaging bill.
 
I've been on both ends. I was the apprentice (here in NC they call that a "helper" :roll: ) and I have had to try and train guys. You can only teach as much as they are willing to learn. I think you have the right idea throwing questions and code references. I came out of a 2-year tech school while in high school, so I don't think that is the problem. I think it is the generation (man, am I getting old enough to say that:confused: ) When I started I read the books and went to the classes, whatever it took to learn. There still is far more to go, some of which I am just now getting around to appreciate the value of. You are always going to have those that don't want anything morre than a paycheck, but don't give up on the next guy. The one's that hang with it and get good make it good for you,too.

I think one of your questions was resources. For me it was classroom and field experience. When I was taking code courses it was my time and money, but with my new boss, he sees the value of my license and offers whatever assistance furthers bot of our futures. Maybe your company will offer to send them to a class or reimburse them if they show certificate or gained knowledge.

Edit to add: One of my favorite questions ever asked of me, while roughing in a house and my helper was learning switch boxes, he hollered out, "Hey, Thom, do all my neutrals tie together??" I had to then remind him that yes, but not all white wires are neutrals. Probably a "you had to be there" moment, but we laughed about that one for a long time.
 
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interesting...

interesting...

I find this whole thread interesting. The prevalent attitude seems to be ? I got mine, you go get yours?.

Yet as an inspector, I am expected to not only inspect the projects, but enlighten some electricians and share my knowledge and training with them for their benefit. Not all electricians, just some, the same as not all apprentices, just some, need enlightenment. I do not see it as a bother or an infringement upon my time or limited knowledge. I see it as an opportunity to help my chosen profession advance the safety of its people and the people they serve.

I AM NOT SAYING OR SUGGESTING I KNOW IT ALL. I learn every day on the job. What I am saying is it is a give and take situation, same as the apprentice?s. I learn as much by teaching and helping others as they learn by listening and asking questions of me.

I believe attitude is the difference??..
 
inspector23 said:
I believe attitude is the difference??..
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Well said. And for any young pup apprentice, I would point to Mr. George Stoltz for a perfect example of what you have said above. I believe he is not yet 10 years in the trade, and look at what we have in him.
 
I use to give an article in the pay check weekly to all employees.
MOST never read it. I would question them on things I sent them, and get the response, "oh the wife gets the paycheck and tosses all that crap".


All that crap? You mean the safety notes, the NEC articles, the issues I research for to keep you up to date, is that the crap you mean,

"Yeah that crap, it means nothng to her.

Can't make them read it.
 
A couple good books for apprentices/helpers are the NEC Handbook (the one with the pics) and Ugly's pocket book. I always have one of these near on jobs and will stop the helpers occasionally and point out why we're doing what we're doing. For guys without any schooling, the ordinary codebook can be intimidating. I remember trying to read it when I first started out and had a difficult time with the vocabulary. That being said, I was taught their are no dumb questions and if your serious about becoming an electrician you better ask a whole lot of them.
 
brian john said:
I use to give an article in the pay check weekly to all employees.
MOST never read it. I would question them on things I sent them, and get the response, "oh the wife gets the paycheck and tosses all that crap".


All that crap? You mean the safety notes, the NEC articles, the issues I research for to keep you up to date, is that the crap you mean,

"Yeah that crap, it means nothng to her.

Can't make them read it.
Click to expand...

Do you really think the guys are going to read that stuff on their own time?
 
hardworkingstiff said:
I guess that means the employer has to pay the employee to learn and improve themselves.
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I can understand that point of view.

However I don't want anything in my check envelope other than my pay.

Where I used to work I would get any or all of the following.

'Tool Box Talks'

Corporate announcements

Newsletters

Company Rule changes

Company Installation standards.

If the info is so important for me to get send it in another envelope.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
I guess that means the employer has to pay the employee to learn and improve themselves.
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And the problem with that is???

If the employer wishes to have qualified persons, then it is the employers responsibility to provide the approved training courses....or do you suggest the employees buy a copy of HD's "Wiring 1-2-3" ....
9780696211843.jpg

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and call themselves "electricians"?
 
iwire said:
If the info is so important for me to get send it in another envelope.
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LOL - the last company I was with was the same way. Nothing like working a long week and coming in to get your check on Friday, and having a memo stapled through the check outside the envelope. After the fifth week in a row, I walked in and asked the secretary if she'd be more careful and not staple the envelope through the check, so I could get my check out without surgery.

The next week, when a staple was right through the center, I replied by stapling my paperwork right through the center of the manilla envelope that contained it. That cured it for a while. :D

macmikeman said:
Well said. And for any young pup apprentice, I would point to Mr. George Stoltz for a perfect example of what you have said above.
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I appreciate it, but there's only one "t" in my last name. ;) :D

I think the people that are driven to learn (as most here are) will always be frustrated by those who don't share the same interests. I refer everyone I meet to this site, because y'all have taught me so much - but few ever actually care enough to join (or open the codebook on their own, for that matter).

Then again, my stories are a lot more boring than somebody's trip to Mexico, or this weekend's skydiving, or what have you. If we all had the same interests it would be a pretty boring world, so I have more patience for the ones who don't dig the NEC as much as some others do. :)
 
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