360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
celtic said:
I shouldn't lump them all into one category, but I've got no interest in one that doesn't. I encourage for OJT, but there usually isn't enough time that a little "homework" isn't necessary.
Apprentice troubles...
- Thread starter kpepin
- Start date
- Status
I shouldn't lump them all into one category, but I've got no interest in one that doesn't. I encourage for OJT, but there usually isn't enough time that a little "homework" isn't necessary.
- Location
- Massachusetts
inspector23 said:
To a certain extent...yes...I feel that way.
It shows a level of commitment.
I am glad to help those that ask for it but I am not going to spoon feed anyone.
When I was an apprentice I worked for some great guys, they taught me many things.....the code was really not one of the things they taught me.
When it was time for me to learn more code I paid for code classes that I had to go to after work at night. It was in a bad neighborhood so I would have to leave the truck in the suburbs and take the train in.
That was a major PITA, but it was I that had chosen to become an electrician and I knew if I wanted to do that some level of sacrifice had to be made.
inspector23 said:
IMO 'enlightenment' is not 'expected' of an inspector and I not sure it is even a good idea.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
No harm from conversation - isn't that what we do here?iwire said:
360Youth said:
Not "everyone" falls into the one catergory. There are some who actually understand that this will become their liveilhood(sp?).
However, to expect that everyone reads (and COMPREHENDS) the papers stuffed in with their paycheck is unreasonable.
OJT is essential to the learning experience...an experience that requires classroom time as well.
360Youth said:
I don't understand these words :-? ....maybe it's me, could you rephrase?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
georgestolz said:I appreciate it, but there's only one "t" in my last name.
Well yes, spellllling has always been one of my strong points.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
I always refer to the "1-9-1 Rule" for this situation, courtesy of an old merchant sea captain who explained it to me from his many years on the ocean. Take 10 guys on his crew. One of then will absolutely excell and go above and beyond the call of duty. 9 of them will just do what it takes to get a days pay, nothing more, nothing less, just enough effort to get by. And finally the last one will be incompetent and lazy and and just plain unqualified.
This rule generally holds true. In fact, it could be explained by the "bell curve" phenoemenon.
Generally speaking, the younger guys only care about partying, girls, wheels and fancy cars, cell phones and so forth. Surprise....they are acting like....young men. Amazing. I have noticed that there isn't much enthusiasm to excell in this field among the younger set (and I am under 30 so I suppose I speak with some authority. ) If they don't care about the trade and don't want to learn, they will fall by the wayside in due time. Those who dedicate themselves to the trade will rise to the top.
This rule generally holds true. In fact, it could be explained by the "bell curve" phenoemenon.
Generally speaking, the younger guys only care about partying, girls, wheels and fancy cars, cell phones and so forth. Surprise....they are acting like....young men. Amazing.
I have noticed that there isn't much enthusiasm to excell in this field among the younger set (and I am under 30 so I suppose I speak with some authority. ) If they don't care about the trade and don't want to learn, they will fall by the wayside in due time. Those who dedicate themselves to the trade will rise to the top.peter d said:I always refer to the "1-9-1 Rule" for this situation, courtesy of an old merchant sea captain who explained it to me from his many years on the ocean. Take 10 guys on his crew. One of then will absolutely excell and go above and beyond the call of duty. 9 of them will just do what it takes to get a days pay, nothing more, nothing less, just enough effort to get by. And finally the last one will be incompetent and lazy and and just plain unqualified.
This rule generally holds true. In fact, it could be explained by the "bell curve" phenoemenon.
Generally speaking, the younger guys only care about partying, girls, wheels and fancy cars, cell phones and so forth. Surprise....they are acting like....young men. Amazing.
You talk of 10 guys but you explain 11?? did the sea captain throw the lazy one over board?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
khixxx said:
haha...maybe in the old days they went over the side but I don't think they can do that anymore.
360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
celtic said:
Sorry. What makes sense in my head does not always translate on screen. :roll: I just meant that there is not always enough time for good quality OJT, to sit down and talk code, or to work through a project with the hows and whys. Most times an apprentice is going to be a runner and wire puller and he is going to have to use his time (homework) to get a leg up on the hows and whys.
masterinbama
Senior Member
- Location
- Huntsville Alabama
I started out in 1980 with a man that started in 1930 worked as his helper/apprentice for 4 years.If I learned half of what that man had to teach me I recieved a $1,000,000 education.Started out on a foundry upgrade cutting threading and bending 4" grs by hand (hack saw ratchet handle and hand pump bender) .After a month of 12 hour days he showed up with a 1235 machine and a electric hydraulic bender.Asked him when he bought them he replied "Oh I've owned these for years and now that you know the hard way you will take care of them right?"This continued untill the day he died and now I find myself passing his wisdom on to my apprentices.
360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
celtic said:
I agree. I try not to. I have worked with great electricians that struggle with the code. They excell in the field, but not so well in the classroom. Even those will stand out. They show up early and find things to do, work late without being asked, etc. I never have had to deal with the stuffed envelopes. As with everything, there is a fine line that works different with every company and employee, but both should be willing to invest in the other for both to grow.
One last note. When I was in high school I did a work study with Baltimore Gas and Electric. I worked at a huge plant with a tool room bigger than my current shop. Whatever was needed got checked out and returned. When I got back into the field I had to realize not everyplace has those same resources and I had to invest in many of my own tools (beyond the usual hand tools.). Hopefully what a worker invests will be appreciated and rewarded.
Re; Text messaging on cell phones
Re; Text messaging on cell phones
I have a simple solution to cell phones... I don't mind the guys having them, but not for personal use all day. Spend too much time on them, and you shut it off and leave in your truck.
I had one kid who spent five minutes pushing buttons on his phone. I asked what he was doing, and his reply was (no joke!), "I'm checking to see what time it is." So it went right out to his truck. But he was so addicted to it, I caught his sneaking out to his truck to check his messages. Now he text-messages while on someone else's clock.
Re; Text messaging on cell phones
brantmacga said:
I have a simple solution to cell phones... I don't mind the guys having them, but not for personal use all day. Spend too much time on them, and you shut it off and leave in your truck.
I had one kid who spent five minutes pushing buttons on his phone. I asked what he was doing, and his reply was (no joke!), "I'm checking to see what time it is." So it went right out to his truck. But he was so addicted to it, I caught his sneaking out to his truck to check his messages. Now he text-messages while on someone else's clock.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Kilmarnock, Va
- Occupation
- Retired after 52 years in the trade.
I do everything I can to educate my men, send them to classes I pay for on company time, hold classes for them on jobs to educate/train them. I have dozens of Brian made books from data I have accumulated over the years that is available to them. The can call me 24X7 to ask questions, if I am not sure about my answer to them for what ever reason, I go to their job.
I have offered to do everything short of taking the test for them to help them get their licenses, Books, software, classes. some take the offer others do not.
I have offered to do everything short of taking the test for them to help them get their licenses, Books, software, classes. some take the offer others do not.
Michael15956
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Ohio
Great, profound wisdom!masterinbama said:
My first post
My first post
I will be entering the third year of my apprenticeship in Sept. I have never posted on this forum, but have read the information throughout my first two years of work/apprenticeship. It seems anytime I have a question just doing a search yields more than enough information to get me going in the right direction.
I greatly appreciate all the information that I've read on this site. For the Opening Poster, if you're discouraged that your apprentices aren't learning from you, if you've posted on this forum (and it looks like you have), I definitely have learned from you.
Speaking from the "other side" of the coin, I definitely feel that ultimately it is my responsibility to learn the code and electrical theory if I am going to be good in this field. I know that will be reflected in a better paycheck, but that's not as much of a goal for me as being a good electrician. I want to be proud of what I've accomplished when I receive my license.
When I felt my apprenticeship classes weren't teaching me enough code usage this last year I ordered Mike Holt's Journeyman Exam Prep book and have been working my way through that in my spare time. I feel that sometimes my classes take it too easy on the apprentices and baby us through the work, giving us better than deserved grades. I'm not sure how some of the guys in my class are going to be able to pass their test, yet they have a pretty good grade point average in the class.
When it comes down to taking the test, it's going to be me sitting there, not my instructor, not my journeyman, just me- I need to know this stuff. Not only that but I want to know this stuff because I want to be a good electrician.
Sorry for the ramble. Just wanted to let all of you know that I appreciate what you do. You have helped me and the industry with your efforts, even if it doesn't seem like it.
For what its worth... I started my apprenticeship out late in life - I'm 40... they say it's never too late to get a real job!
My first post
I will be entering the third year of my apprenticeship in Sept. I have never posted on this forum, but have read the information throughout my first two years of work/apprenticeship. It seems anytime I have a question just doing a search yields more than enough information to get me going in the right direction.
I greatly appreciate all the information that I've read on this site. For the Opening Poster, if you're discouraged that your apprentices aren't learning from you, if you've posted on this forum (and it looks like you have), I definitely have learned from you.
Speaking from the "other side" of the coin, I definitely feel that ultimately it is my responsibility to learn the code and electrical theory if I am going to be good in this field. I know that will be reflected in a better paycheck, but that's not as much of a goal for me as being a good electrician. I want to be proud of what I've accomplished when I receive my license.
When I felt my apprenticeship classes weren't teaching me enough code usage this last year I ordered Mike Holt's Journeyman Exam Prep book and have been working my way through that in my spare time. I feel that sometimes my classes take it too easy on the apprentices and baby us through the work, giving us better than deserved grades. I'm not sure how some of the guys in my class are going to be able to pass their test, yet they have a pretty good grade point average in the class.
When it comes down to taking the test, it's going to be me sitting there, not my instructor, not my journeyman, just me- I need to know this stuff. Not only that but I want to know this stuff because I want to be a good electrician.
Sorry for the ramble. Just wanted to let all of you know that I appreciate what you do. You have helped me and the industry with your efforts, even if it doesn't seem like it.
For what its worth... I started my apprenticeship out late in life - I'm 40... they say it's never too late to get a real job!
360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
Nice post sw ross. Hope things work out well for you. From the sound of it I think it will.
kpepin
Senior Member
I can understand what most of you are saying. Ultimately, the apprentice has to stick their nose in the books and study on their own.
sw ross is a good example of what a little maturity can do though. Like I said, most of the apprentices I work with started out at 18 or 19. By the time they can go for the test, they are 21-23. It seems like most of them are still living with their parents. I've had a couple that started out a little later in life and they seem more willing to study. I guess they realize the difference between a job and a career.
sw ross is a good example of what a little maturity can do though. Like I said, most of the apprentices I work with started out at 18 or 19. By the time they can go for the test, they are 21-23. It seems like most of them are still living with their parents. I've had a couple that started out a little later in life and they seem more willing to study. I guess they realize the difference between a job and a career.
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