Approved fitting or????

[shepelec]

A few years back when the whole "bonding of the water" for pools came out, most inspectors would allow a section of brass pipe with a ground clamp. Since there was nothing commercialy availible, this was allowed.
Now that there are several listed fitting for this purpose, we are requiring this listed fitting to be used instead of the "home made" device.

What is the opinion of the forum on this subject?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The code does not specify a listed device and I don't see any need to use a listed device.

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).

 

[infinity]

I agree with Don, unless it's specified otherwise in Article 680 a clamp on the metal pipe should be sufficient to bond the water.

 

[Volta]

The grounding fitting could be required to be listed, but I wouldn't think the plumbing system components would need to be. Do you require the underground metal piping used for the grounding electrode to be listed by a NRTL?

Now, whether the electrician is allowed to install brass piping for the water is another thing completely.

 

[shepelec]

I probably should have specified, that this a piece of piping that was installed by the EC. It is not a manufactured item that comes with the pool filter.

My thought is, if it is installed by the EC it should be a listed device for the application.

Does this change any ones opinion?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I probably should have specified, that this a piece of piping that was installed by the EC. It is not a manufactured item that comes with the pool filter.

My thought is, if it is installed by the EC it should be a listed device for the application.

Does this change any ones opinion?

No it does not. The NEC does not require everything we install to be a listed product. As long as the pipe is suitable for the pool water, is metallic, and has at least 9 square inches of its surface in contact with the pool water it is fine for use as the pool water bonding connection.

 

[augie47]

IMHO, it falls back to 110.2, "equipment shall be acceptable only if approved".
Local jurisdictions are full of requirements above and beyond the NEC and if your jurisdiction elects to require a "listed" product for this application so be it.
Hopefully any such requirements will be codified and published.

 

[shepelec]

I guess I needed to dig a bit deeper. In the MA amendments it states the fitting needs to be "approved".
By the definition of "approved", that leaves it up to the AHJ.

 

[Volta]

I guess I needed to dig a bit deeper. In the MA amendments it states the fitting needs to be "approved".
By the definition of "approved", that leaves it up to the AHJ.

But that is still the fitting, not the item the fitting is connecting to, imo.

 

[infinity]

I probably should have specified, that this a piece of piping that was installed by the EC. It is not a manufactured item that comes with the pool filter.

My thought is, if it is installed by the EC it should be a listed device for the application.

Does this change any ones opinion?

Doesn't change mine. If the plumber installed a small section of metal piping and the EC bonded it would that change anything?

 

[scotmans]

Doesn't change mine. If the plumber installed a small section of metal piping and the EC bonded it would that change anything?

You are talking about to different things. If the plumber installs water pipe we bond it to make sure the metallic pipe does not become energized.
The other person is talking about using something metallic to bond water to the same potential as the earth and steel around it.
This product must be UL listed for the job it has to do. The first person that posted the question is right on track with his statement and there are UL listed items to do this.

 

[infinity]

You are talking about to different things. If the plumber installs water pipe we bond it to make sure the metallic pipe does not become energized.
The other person is talking about using something metallic to bond water to the same potential as the earth and steel around it.
This product must be UL listed for the job it has to do. The first person that posted the question is right on track with his statement and there are UL listed items to do this.

Here's what the section says:

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).

Why can't a short section of pipe be used to accomplish this? Where does it say that a listed product must be used?

 

[shepelec]

I love a good debate.
Part of the difference here might be due to MA amendments as this job is in MA.

MA has admended 680.26(C) to read,
"(C) Pool water. Pool water shall have an electrical connectionto one or more of the bonded parts described in 680.26(B). Where none of the bonded parts is in direct connection with the pool water, the pool water shall be in direct contact with an approved corrosion resistant conductive surface that exposes not less than 500mm-2( 9in-2) of surface area to the pool water at all times. The conductive surface shall be located where it is not exposed to physical damage or dislogement during usual pool activities, and it shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)."

This apprears to read a bit different from the un-amended NEC that most of you use, but the word approved, by the definitions in the book and 90.4, leaves this to the up to the AHJ.

Any changes of mind?:angel:

Since I typed the MEC quote please forgive any typos

 

[don_resqcapt19]

No change here...approved does not mean the item has to be listed. Some AHJs read it that way but there is room to read it the other way. There is no need for a listed part here. We only need some piece of metal that has at least 9 square inches of surface area in contact with the pool water.

Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.