arc fault circuit tester

[kwired]

It is a newly adopted local requirement. I am trying to avoid the "additional charges" by determining ahead of time if the circuit will have an issue.

Which probably means you have additional charges upfront for finding these problems ahead of time.

I still think I like the idea of giving a base price as well as an estimate of what could happen.

Or you can give a price that includes solving these problems whether they happen or not.

Me personally - I am getting to where I dislike doing such jobs, and as long as I don't have to depend on them, I don't give them much priority, AFCI has really messed up the already cut throat residential market. I don't have any problem with new homes or additions, but a service upgrade only or even just extending a circuit an installing an additional outlet has become something I have little interest in. I will do so for past customers that I have good and continuing work for, but not the random person that wants it done for as little as possible.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

most problems with arc fault occurs with the existing devices we provide a service change out but do not replace receptacles switches and other devices as we all know stab style receptacles are some of the biggest culprits to arcing and 20 years of someone plugging a space heater into them well you get the message

most times the actual runs of wiring is usually good and yes a megger can determine that

so you can offer a supplementary bid for pig tailing and replacing devices i think one of the most important things to do for homes 20 years or older including new smoke detectors

next would be to provide a price to megger the runs but if the wires are modern type romex and if you do replace devices you would probably see any heat related damage which may incline you to test that run

if you are bidding against a guy who is just providing a service change out specify to the owner it will need ark fault protection so the bidding is on a level playing field. the guy bidding without gets the job then has to provide after failing inspection you still dont get the job because of there mistake and the homeowner left with big problems negotiating addition price to to that said electrician to complete

remember most homes wired in maybe the last 30 years may have multi branch circuit conductors and would have to provide a 2 pole arc fault breaker so you want to provide a panel with that capability and with this makes it much more difficult to determine a problem because you have to look at two circuits bringing back the need to replace all devices and pigtail as the best option

so if the owner does not want to do the added work before and wants to role the dice let them know if that breaker trips it will be an add on to repair and give your hourly rate to trouble shoot i just had a job similar problem burned up receptacle in house from space heater gave a price to replace all of them but they decide to role the dice replace that one they called back with a burned up receptacles in kitchen on another circuit

what you would like to sell is a twenty year install as the incentive for the customer to dig deeper into there pockets

 

[kwired]

most problems with arc fault occurs with the existing devices we provide a service change out but do not replace receptacles switches and other devices as we all know stab style receptacles are some of the biggest culprits to arcing and 20 years of someone plugging a space heater into them well you get the message

And I know of no device that will perform a quick and simple test to find those problems. You need to load the circuit to get arcing from back stab devices or other loose connections, it may even need to be loaded for a certain amount of time at a certain level before it will cause problems. Still somewhat of a crapshoot if you want to do some kind of quick analysis.

Still think OP needs to consider some "just in case" expense into these jobs to cover unforseen problems, if he wants to bill customer a set rate that was determined up front. Some jobs you maybe lose some others you maybe gain some, but by losing I still mean you have less profit and not a net loss on the entire job.

You are already doing this with these jobs, lose a little here, gain a little there, but still profit either way, you have just brought up a bigger hurdle of the unexpected than encountered before. Enough experience, you will find some common trends as to what to expect for some middle ground.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What I would like is to find a tester that would let us know if the circuit had an arc fault issue prior to the change out so we could bid accordingly.

This has possibilities:
Siemens Intelli-Arc Diagnostic Tool

In reading this post for the first time, that tool is what I thought of immediately.

The practical reality of showing a potential client what will possibly (probably?) cause an AFCI to trip is that one must also test the running loads. The strength of the Intelli-Arc, once the sender is installed at the origination of a particular branch circuit, is that the hand held remote can be shown to the client and they can see the change in the Intelli-Arc Diagnostic sensor's representation of the strength of the "harmful" arc signatures it can measure.

In my opinion, while the best "indicator" yet available, the Intelli-Arc is apparantly still only able to look at an approximation of the infinite possible arc signatures.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is all great but in no way am I going to sit there and do all this diagnostic for nothing. I can see the effort as a plus and minus in trying to land the job.

I think it is to bad that the town is enforcing such a rule.