Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

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aelectricalman

aelectricalman

Senior Member
Location
KY
Historically I have been combining the 2 (Bedroom and Smoke Detector) circuits by wirenutting them together in the breaker panel and combining them to 1 AFCI circuit. The reasoning behind this is to save money and also give myself a plan B if the smokes need to be seperated in the future. This logic was brought about because in about 1 of every 10 homes we do, there is a problem of nuisance tripping when the smokes are tied to the bedroom circuits. The problem is always resolved when the two are seperated. Again it is about one in 10 homes so not everytime. Why would there be an issue with tripping that is fixed when the circuits are separated? The circuits are not overloading, just nuisance tripping that can be fixed by resetting the breaker. We've re-tied all of the joints on each circuit all three times this has happened. All three times, the problem was repaired by separating the two circuits out. WE use Firex smoke detectors and have used them everytime. Thank you.
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

Chris I have a thread in re:to a simular situation.It was not nuisance tripping but nuisance alarms,we isolated the circuit to the feed and still it went off.Changed the feed and problem disapeared ;) I like the idea of feeding from the panel we have been tagging off a bedroom circuit.We have had a few homes we lost big $$$$ on :roll: Each time we refed the circuit the problem disappeared :confused: EMF from another circuit,pressure short that caused this to happen??Went through the whole senario.Change out sd`s check all connections.Isolated to the feed and took whole sd circuit out of the picture and still it was there.This was never an issue until we were required to put sd`s on an afci circuit.We use homeline and GE products,it has happened on the sq d product,both homeline and qo.Maybe there is something in this product that allows a temp loss of voltage that sets them off :confused:
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

I use Cutler Hammer breakers. I've just read the thread you spoke of, and It helps. Thanks .
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

That`s why we come here for the things others have encountered.Oh and the occasional needlimg puns and daggers that we all do :D
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

in Tulsa Okla. we are not required to AFCI smoke detectors because of nuisance tripping. I have found that no matter what kind of breaker you use they will nuisance trip with smoke detectors and sometimes with ceiling fans.
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

jackcay...I have no callbacks at all from putting smoke detectors or paddle fans on AFCI protected circuits (knock on wood)...I use ITE materials.

Hope you have a local bylaw thats allows you to omit those outlets that you are not AFCI protecting. Them lawyers will hang you if a fire started and they determine that you should have installed AFCI protection.

shortcircuit2

[ March 12, 2005, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: shortcircuit2 ]
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

George it`s not tripping that sets the sd`s off there has to be something in the chip or something that causes a momentary loss of voltage :D We have returned to our vendors 100,s of perfevtly good sd`s.Service dept changes them out,sometimes it is a bad one other times it`s not the sd`s at all.First we found sd boxes that were not wire nutted on rough was one culprit.Texture,paint causing bad connections.Policy changed and we thought that we had problem solved :D
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

Originally posted by aelectricalman:
This logic was brought about because in about 1 of every 10 homes we do, there is a problem of nuisance tripping when the smokes are tied to the bedroom circuits.
Click to expand...
Chris isn't having the same problem as you, Allen. You're having nuisance alarms from the smokes, Chris seems to be having nuisance breaker tripping caused by smokes.

And for Pete's Sake, Allen! Do we need to chip in and buy you a return key??? :D :D
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

So
then
we'd
have
to
read
Allen's
posts
like
this?

I
know
you're
only
trying
to
help
George
but
you
have
to
consider
the
potential
for
unexpected
concequences.
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

Want to chip in and buy me something let it be a new boat/motor and a cooler full of ICEHOUSE,You cant have a good day fishing without a cooler full of nice cold beer :D
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

roflol.gif
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

In 2005 NEC supply of any kind of fire alarm or smoke detector from a GFCI or AFCI is absolutely prohibited. See NEC 760.21 and 760.41.

However, this rule should be duplicated in article 210.
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

mc5w,
That section does not apply to the independent or interconnected smoke detectors that are normally installed in dwelling units. It only applies to fire alarm systems. There are statements from the NFPA that say fire alarm systems must have a central control panel.
Don
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

So, the smoke detectors have to be hooked up to a control panel that calls the fire department. I probably would want that anyways.
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

Originally posted by mc5w:
So, the smoke detectors have to be hooked up to a control panel that calls the fire department. I probably would want that anyways.
Click to expand...
You wire houses like that? :confused:
 
Re: Arc faults- Bedrooms and Smoke Detectors

I do not get to wire new houses because every general contractor who builds new houses says that they can get a new house wired for 1/6th to 1/4 of what a reputable extimating book says that the work should cost. New houses are almost always wired by the cheapest numbnut that the general contractor can find. If you have industrial or commercial experience you are NOT allowed to wire new houses.

I do get to do old work such as adding branch circuits and replacing services. As far as I am concerned if the smoke detectors have backup batteries then I do not care about the GFCI/AFCI issue.

Smoke detectors in 1 to 3 family dwellings in Ohio do not fall under Ohio Building Code so whether or not a fire alarm panel is needed for line voltage smoke detectors is up to the local AHJ and building code. I do not see anything in NEC 760.21 through 760.28 that requires an alarm panel so line voltage smoke detectors without an alarm panel would still be a fire alarm circuit.

What I am going to do is send an email to John Labriola who is one of the top electrical inspectors in northeast Ohio. I will suggest that he join this forum and post his answer here.
 
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