Arc $$$$$ Faults

[kwired]

What Code are you following? In NYC we are under 2008 but I thought even in 2011 I didn't think you needed AFCIs in kitchens (where the micro, fridge, etc. would be).

For 2011 that is correct. For 2014 they possibly could save some print space by telling us where AFCI is not required in dwellings, there is not many places left that don't require it. Primarily outdoors, garages, unfinished basements, crawl spaces are about it, most everything else now requires AFCI if it is 15 or 20 amp and 120 volts.

Add: if you have a switch for an outlet in one of those spaces I mentioned above in a space that otherwise requires AFCI - you still need AFCI so one common example is outdoor lighting wouldn't require AFCI, but if the switch is inside - it likely still requires AFCI because of switch location.

 

[goldstar]

Did MA officially adopt the 2014 NEC ? If so and you're bidding on new work then (unfortunately in your case) the kitchen is included under AFCI required protection. If you're still under 2011 you may have over-bid the job. Kitchens, laundry areas and dormitories were added in the 2014 edition.

Like others have mentioned, I'd like to know what the secret is in side-stepping the AFCI requirement. If you find out please post it. If it's not legit we'd love to bash it.:thumbsup:

Summary of Areas Protected between 2011 and 2014 Code Issue

• 2011?Dwelling Unit
  1. Family rooms
  2. Dining rooms
  3. Living rooms
  4. Parlors
  5. Libraries
  6. Dens
  7. Bedrooms
  8. Sunrooms
  9. Recreation rooms
  10. Closets
  11. Hallways
  12. or similar rooms or areas
• 2014?Dwelling Unit
  1. Kitchens
  2. Laundry areas
  3. Family rooms
  4. Dining rooms
  5. Living rooms
  6. Parlors
  7. Libraries
  8. Dens
  9. Bedrooms
  10. Dormitory units, bedrooms, living rooms, hallways, closets and similar rooms
  11. Sunrooms
  12. Recreation rooms
  13. Closets
  14. Hallways
  15. or similar rooms or areas

 

[jeff48356]

If AFCI is now required pretty much everywhere, why are the prices of them still so expensive? I thought if something is mass-produced in large enough quantities, the price usually drops. The price of them per-breaker is ridiculous, considering the number that are now needed in new construction.

 

[kwired]

If AFCI is now required pretty much everywhere, why are the prices of them still so expensive? I thought if something is mass-produced in large enough quantities, the price usually drops. The price of them per-breaker is ridiculous, considering the number that are now needed in new construction.

My guess is they won't go down, but they may not go up at same rates as other products by same makers which effectively is somewhat like a price decline. They have put too much into R&D and lobbying to get them into code (all JMO) and are now getting that investment back in sales.

I can't speak for how things are today, but when I was still in college, our class happened to take a tour of the Square D plant where they manufacture QO breakers. That was about 25 or so years ago, but it became apparent why at that time GFCI breakers were so much higher then most others - they had machines that assembled the standard breakers and they could spit out hundreds of finished units in an hour, the GFCI and some other specialties like maybe shunt trips were at that time assembled by hand by people - much more cost in labor for those particular units. Not sure just how those are assembled today or the AFCI's.