Arc Flash PPE selection

[ron]

realolman,
Wow, you blew any shot of help down the road.
Zog spoon fed it to you.
Too bad.

Moderators, this is going nowhere fast.

 

[realolman]

realolman,
Wow, you blew any shot of help down the road.
Zog spoon fed it to you.
Too bad.

Moderators, this is going nowhere fast.

What is it that you want the moderators to do? He screwed up my thread with self-important nonsense, when I was looking for specific recommendations That kind of help I don't need.


I was not assigned to purchase PPE, I was offered the opportunity for my input. Never having used the stuff, I knew nothing about it and wanted to offer some knowlegable input... I'm gonna hafta use the stuff too. So I came here. I wanted to provide specifics... not general philosophies or name dropping.


I wanted some people who used the stuff to maybe tell me what kind they used , if they liked it. A couple guys did that. Then he took over the thread .

How many posts with no specific recommendations?

How about some child psychology ... get the fellas involved with patches of material... the guys I work with are mature adults... they don't need psychology, and they'd recognize it in a second.


I found the LT stuff from Salisbury with a google search . I saved the pdf file before I ever came here. There are several different kinds. There are coveralls, jackets and pants, some have built in hoods , some have seperate hoods... etc I am aware there are different sizes... all Zog had to do was say " I think the Salisbury XYZ kit is the best, most confortable one... for these reasons... of course you need to specify a size."


Attack, my butt. I pointed it out for what is was ... nonspecific smoke and mirrors. Save it for the managers in the conference room... I'm sure they'll be impressed. I know I am ....not.

thanks for ruining my thread.


.

 

[Hugh_Hoagland_e-Hazard]

Arc Clothing

Arc Clothing

You have some good advice here. I recommend two others to look at.

GlenGuard and TecaSafe Plus.

These two are light weight 8 cal systems that are inherently FR. I love UltraSoft, Milliken Amplitude, & Walls BanWear too. They are good materials. If you get into bleaches the GlenGuard is amazing in its color retention. UltraSoft, Milliken Amplitude, & BanWear (88/12 cotton/nylon) are less costly options than the inherents but you should try a few different materials before you make a final choice.

Nomex can be an option but no single layer HRC 2 commonly available. I recommend looking at DriFire, Antex, or UltraSoft t-shirts for underlayers if you are looking at Nomex. I like the arc rated t-shirts anyway. They are great for daily wear and add a lightweight arc rated shirt for energized work. You'll never have an ignition that way.

Look at suits from SteelGrip, NSA, Stanco, Salisbury and Oberon. Look at flash suits which have fans since they are a LOT more comfortable.

The newest suits have better visibility. The patented lenses in SteelGrip, NSA, Stanco and Salisbury are cutting edge as are the suits.

I'm a big fan of the new Salisbury Weight Balancing Faceshield. I do testing of just about everything on the market and stay unbiased. My website links to the best companies. ArcWear.com. I make nothing from the links. I just do most of the arc flash testing and development.

 

[realolman]

In order to verify with a meter that the enclosure is de-energized, is it necessary to wear electrically insulated ( rubber ) gloves at any category if the voltage is 480 or below?

How about troubleshooting live?... are rubber gloves needed at any category if the voltage is 480 or below?

How about switching at any category?.... are rubber gloves necessary?

Are any leather work gloves suitable for category 0 or 2, or do they need to be rated ?

Are there different level gloves to be worn at higher categories... I see category 4 requires arc rated gloves, where category 2 says leather gloves?


Is anything above and beyond leather work shoes necessary at any category?

At Category 4 what level FR shirt and pants are to be worn under the 40 cal. suits?

thank you

 

[Hugh_Hoagland_e-Hazard]

Gloves for Arc and Shock

Gloves for Arc and Shock

In order to verify with a meter that the enclosure is de-energized, is it necessary to wear electrically insulated ( rubber ) gloves at any category if the voltage is 480 or below?
Yes. The standard requires gloves when crossing the "restricted boundary" or when "working on" live parts. If you look at the definition of "working on" in the definitions section it includes touching with tools or test equipment regardless of the rating. So "testing is touching" is the standard's rule.

How about troubleshooting live?... are rubber gloves needed at any category if the voltage is 480 or below?
Required. Same as above.

How about switching at any category?.... are rubber gloves necessary?
Not at all categories though I recommend them. The standard changed in 2009. Before it didn't require rubber gloves for switching. Now it does for 1000V up. It was my proposal. They accepted it but didn't implement for 480V. I still recommend it since many 480V switches have higher amperage and the arc flash itself is electrical and can cause shock. Additionally IF a switchgear fails the metal handle can become energized by an electrical connection failure. Disconnects and many other equipment do not require rubber gloves for operation. The standard pretty clearly lays these out.

Are any leather work gloves suitable for category 0 or 2, or do they need to be rated ?
HRC's have nothing to do with shock. That is a common misconception. HRC's are a separate line and a separate table. So you can need HRC 0 clothing yet need shock protection or you can need HRC 2 and not need shock. This depends on the task. Leather, by the standard has NO shock protection. Only arc flash protection.

Are there different level gloves to be worn at higher categories... I see category 4 requires arc rated gloves, where category 2 says leather gloves?
This is because there is no final glove standard currently to test leather gloves. So leather gloves if rated are done by a proposed ASTM standard. The higher level gloves are sewn from fabric rated on a panel using ASTM F1959. I prefer the new glove standard but a few old "ex-utility" codgers have blocked the ASTM standard.

Is anything above and beyond leather work shoes necessary at any category?
Not by the standard. I have tested common leather shoes to >40 cal and never seen a temperature rise inside. They are pretty amazing.

At Category 4 what level FR shirt and pants are to be worn under the 40 cal. suits?
You can wear the 40 cal suit naked if you wish but I prefer arc rated so no ignition is possible. 40 cal is 40 cal. No extra shirt needed. No melting stuff underneath though and in higher voltages a tracking arc can ignite clothing underneath. I just prefer arc rated underneath.

Hope this helps.

 

[realolman]

......Hope this helps

Absolutely this helps...
thank you very much for your answers to my questions.

So you can need HRC 0 clothing yet need shock protection or you can need HRC 2 and not need shock. This depends on the task. Leather, by the standard has NO shock protection. Only arc flash protection.

I don't understand that statement.

Once you have verified that the enclosure is de-energized, I don't see the need for any PPE... and until it is verified, don't you need whatever is labeled on the enclosure door?


I work for a fairly major company, I think most everyone would recognize it. We received our arc flash study and training from a company that I know everyone would recognize, and I don't want to identify either one.

I am still not quite understanding a few things....

We received a handout (actually 2) that describes what is required to be worn in each category. Both these handouts do not require rubber insulating gloves to be worn in category 0... even leather gloves themselves are only required on as "as needed" basis, and the handouts say that only leather gloves need to be worn in category 0. Also, both handouts say that FR pants and shirt need to be worn under the category 4 PPE. You say they do not? The only reason you are wearing anything under the suit is for higher voltages... Our facility has nothing above 480, so that would not be an issue... correct?


I get the shoes part, and that was something I didn't know before....

Perhaps I did not use the correct terminology when I said "switching".. everything we do is disconnects, safety switches, and breakers.

I AM one of those ex-utility codgers. I seem to remember not working anything over 5000 V with rubber, and the gloves were tested to - I don't remember - 11KV or something like that.

There is nothing in our facility that is over 480VAC, so I would like to assume that there could be gloves that would not be nearly as cumbersome as the gloves and gauntlets I used to wear as a lineman. Is that true?

The reason I am making such a deal about the gloves is: we will be in Cat 0 enclosures far more often than cat 4. Is it possible to wear a less cumbersome glove on Category 2 than category 4 , and a stilll less cumbersome glove on Category 0? ...., particularly if you know the voltage levels. I understand a lower voltage does not mean a lower arc flash hazard, but it does mean a lower voltage level.


And the material our trainer handed out specifies arc rated gloves for Cat. 4 , but not for 2 or 0.

At any rate, thank you for your answers, and I suppose we'll have to break down and buy a copy of 70E rather than relying on others.

 

[Denis]

http://cotradeco.com/uploads/assets/pages/0000/0008/NFPA-70E-Hazard-Classes.pdf hazard classes

read this http://www.labsafety.com/refinfo/ezfacts/ezf263.htm

go here: http://www.magidglove.com/

be sure to read this http://www.electricityforum.com/arc-flash/arc-flash-clothing.html

and end up with something like

this type of suit is rated 4, and what I use ONLY when necessary, due to operating the
600v main breaker

it's not bad, pants slips on with leg zippers and elastic drawstring waistband

 

[realolman]

Thank you... I read the links you provided and there is some good stuff there. I appreciate your input.

it's not bad, pants slips on with leg zippers and elastic drawstring waistband

That's the type of personal experience insight I have been looking for


Is this correct?

Class 00 rubber gloves and protectors would be sufficient in any situation in a facility that has 480V 3 phase as the highest voltege system.

 

[raider1]

Is this correct?

Class 00 rubber gloves and protectors would be sufficient in any situation in a facility that has 480V 3 phase as the highest voltege system.

Yes, 00 Rubber voltage rated gloves are rated for a maximum voltage of 500 volts AC.

Chris

 

[CPorter]

Our stuff is 480v and under. Our personel are subject to some high temperatures and high humidity areas. The Arc Flash study says we have a mix of hazard ratings. Its mostly HRC 0 but includes HRC1-3 and some dangerous areas. We don't work the dangerous areas hot and are looking into mitigation like you. Until you prove it's dead, NFPA 70E requires arc flash protection and shock protection. Rubber gloves with leather protectors are considered arc flash and shock protection when used together.

The NFPA has a sample program in the back (Annex H 2009 Ed.) for HRC 2 and below and then everything else. I chosen to implement something like it because it limits the stuff to buy and it takes into account tendancies people exhibit.

I bought several samples of shirts and pants in HRC 2 and a few short sleeve shirts in HRC1. They got to test it and supply input as to what to get. The HRC 2 jeans are a bit heavy and hot. We chose the canvas pants because they are lighter and cooler plus have regular, relaxed and loose fits.

The long sleeve shirts in HRC 2 are generally like winter weight shirts regardless of manufacturers 7.5 oz or 5.5 oz summer weight labeling. They don't go along with the current 105+ degree heat very well and add to the hazard of heat stress. The guys testing them said that the Henley style shirts were cooler and more comfortable. The short sleeve HRC 1 shirts are better heat wise but don't meet the NFPA 70E requirements for long sleeve shirts. We decided to allow certain personell to wear the HRC 1 shirts for their normal duties and have a HRC 2 lab coat available for the odd times they need it. The others regularly work disconnects and combination starters where the HRC 2 long sleeve shirts offer the required protection without chasing down additional gear. All the shirts are stiff and scratchy at first, even the Endura Softs, the knit ones tend to be more comfortable. They also all have extra labels that tend to rub skin raw in places and generally feel like they are made of fiberglass.

For the other stuff we have purchased two 40 cal arc flash suits and everyone has two pair of class 00 gloves with protectors. I have placed face shields and hoods in lockers outside the office areas.

I still have to find properly rated safety glasses for everyone and I hope to find some with built in reading glasses

 

[DrDover]

I couldn't recommend Oberon to my worst enemy. We used oberon for a period of time untill the buttons started falling off and the manuf. denied they had a problem while all the buttons were falling off all of our shirts. We started using Carhartt HRC 2 pants and shirts and have found them to be much much much more durable and they have no special laundering requirements. My company has essentialy done away with categories 0-1 and requires HRC 2 for any arc risk work up to HRC 2. We also have category 4 suits and hoods for higher risk category work I am not sure of the brand of that gear. While the gear is hot to wear your guys will get used to it and they must understand that no matter how hot the HRC gear is that is not as hot as an arc blast to the skin.