arc flash

[shallo]

I would like to find information on performing a arc flash analysis on a mcc. Videos or anything would be great. I am aware of the nfpa.

 

[lawtons]

RE: Arc Flash Protection

RE: Arc Flash Protection

Yesterday I went to a 6 hour seminar on arch flash and voltage hazard protection put on by a local vendor with an instructor from Littlefuse.
Check out: http://www.littlefuse.com/data/en/Technical_Articles/Arc_Flash_Whitepaper_8-18-03.pdf

I don't have my notes in front of me now, but I think he said that for under 600v the standard is NFPA 70E, and over 600V it is an IEEE standard. The training was very well done. And the instructor was well prepared. I would strongly suggest going to one of these seminars.

This guy sells products that dramatically reduce arc flash hazards, so I would like some independent confirmation on what he taught. If the electrical industry adopts the rules taught in this class we will need to tow a trailer behind our truck to carry all the safety equipment. You will need a moon suit to change an I-Line breaker. I'm not against safety. In fact I catch H#LL for trying to push safety. Lastly llittlefuse will come in and perform and arc flash survey to determine the available fault current and hazards at all your electrical equipment. When this is complete there will be nice labels posted on everything with all the necessary information on the hazards involved. I need to know if these laws are binding. It sounds like they will be enforced by OSHA.

I work for an OEM that builds machines with 150HP motors and built in VFDs. We have testing going on all over the place all the time. When I bring this up they are going to laugh me out of the building.

I would greatly appreciate any comments.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You will need a moon suit to change an I-Line breaker.

Maybe, maybe not. You can't make that statement unless someone has done the study. It depends on the available fault current and the trip or opening times for the upstream devices.
Don

 

[ron]

If the electrical industry adopts the rules taught in this class we will need to tow a trailer behind our truck to carry all the safety equipment. You will need a moon suit to change an I-Line breaker.

The industry has adopted the rules established by OSHA and NFPA 70E. Do not make the rash judgment that a Littlefuse current limiting fuse reduces arc flash as compared to other overcurrent protective devices, because it often doesn't. Many devices will do just as good a job in many applications. A current limiting device only current limits when it has enough fault current to do so.

 

[jim dungar]

I don't have my notes in front of me now, but I think he said that for under 600v the standard is NFPA 70E, and over 600V it is an IEEE standard. The training was very well done. And the instructor was well prepared. I would strongly suggest going to one of these seminars.

The standard for Electrical Safe Work practices, which includes arc flash, is NFPA 70E for 50V and above. This standard is currently being cited by OSHA under their General Duty clause.

IEEE1584 is only one tool (a set of calculations) that may be used to calculate arc flash incident energy (AFIE) at different distances. IEEE 1584 does nothing to determine risk categories or protection requirements. There are other sets of calculations that may used depending on voltage level, protective device type, and amount of available fault current.

For what it's worth, I just finished a study of facility where less than 10% of the 250+ locations studied required a "moon suit"; all of the other locations require minor PPE additions to the workers' normal work attire.

 

[FNCnca]

For what it's worth, I just finished a study of facility where less than 10% of the 250+ locations studied required a "moon suit"; all of the other locations require minor PPE additions to the workers' normal work attire.

This statement applies in this facility as well. Furthermore, switching in those location is only required twice per year, at most. So yeah I have to wear the the dreaded "moon suit", but for about a total of 10 minutes per year. Will bet this is true in most modern facilities around the country.

 

[zog]

There are alternitives, remote operators and remote racking systems.

http://www.remoterackingsolutions.com/

Also there are several ways to reduce arc flah hazards besides fuses.

http://www.utilityrelay.com/QUICK-TRIP_Page.html

 

[lawtons]

Thanks for the feedback. I know I will need to get the analysis done before making any rash judgments. I actually look forward to the day when we can say to the new guy "I remember back in the day when an electrician would just check a breaker by putting his leads on the circuit with no gloves, and no face shield. It was a wild and untamed time." It's like the thought of forcing your kids to ride down the road in a car with seatbelts. It seemed impossible at first. But now it happens all the time. And we are all better for it.
The question is when troubleshooting a problem in a machine tomorrow at work do I wait until I have the correct PPE. The question is should this be implemented today? If I push for this will I simply be replaced by someone who does not follow the letter of the law? Or should I wait until OSHA sights us for non compliance? I?m actually sitting hear writing this in my new Moon Suit???.My wife is getting worried?. Help me.......:grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

go to you tube

go to you tube

and put in the search arc flash you will find convincing evidence to suit up.

 

[76nemo]

and put in the search arc flash you will find convincing evidence to suit up.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thanks for standing up to be what seems like such a simple decision. Why do some of you dislike these "dreaded" moon suits. Alot of times the term "Holier Than Thou", comes to my head in this discussion. What is it? Have you been accident free for so many years, it won't happen to you tomorrow? Are you just that good, accidents won't happen to you? 'Cause if so, I think it's only fair to sit down with all of your family and friends and tell them that you have absolutely no regard for the potential of just what electricity can do when run amuck.
Having to buy a trailer to tow PPE is quite thee exaggeration, but even if you did, and you walked away from a large enough flash with just a scare, wouldn't it be worth it to you and all of your family?????

What the heck am I missing here????????????????????

 

[dbaird]

The question is when troubleshooting a problem in a machine tomorrow at work do I wait until I have the correct PPE. The question is should this be implemented today? If I push for this will I simply be replaced by someone who does not follow the letter of the law? Or should I wait until OSHA sights us for non compliance? I?m actually sitting hear writing this in my new Moon Suit???.My wife is getting worried?. Help me.......

I too am curious as to when OHSA is going to enforce compliance as I seem to be the only one in my company that cares and/or is concerned. Is there a deadline that manufactures have to evaluate their in-house machinery, train employees and meet the guidelines?

We are also an OEM of machinery. We are never given up front any information as to the power rating to our machine, even if we ask for it. The normal reaction is "why are you asking?" Consequently, we make every effort in providing as high a SCCR panel rating that components / analysis allows and label the panel accordingly. The burden then is on the end-user to evaluate and provide the appropriate power components to our machine. Seems backwords to me. I don't know why this is not a "joint effort" between us and the end-user.

 

[zog]

Technically OSHA is already enforcing it, had been since around 2001 after the Ford settlement case.

In reality it varies by state, enforcement is in full swing in OH, not so much in the south. Also depends on if you are in a state with a state regulated OSHA or if your saste follows federal OSHA.

Where are you?

 

[dbaird]

zog,

We are located in Ohio and our stamping operations takes place here. We also design/build machines that go all over the world including several USA sites.

 

[zog]

I too am curious as to when OHSA is going to enforce compliance as I seem to be the only one in my company that cares and/or is concerned. Is there a deadline that manufactures have to evaluate their in-house machinery, train employees and meet the guidelines?

We are also an OEM of machinery. We are never given up front any information as to the power rating to our machine, even if we ask for it. The normal reaction is "why are you asking?" Consequently, we make every effort in providing as high a SCCR panel rating that components / analysis allows and label the panel accordingly. The burden then is on the end-user to evaluate and provide the appropriate power components to our machine. Seems backwords to me. I don't know why this is not a "joint effort" between us and the end-user.

OH is getting hit hard, few accidents have got the local OSHA guys in full enforcement mode there, if you want PM me and I can get you some local "ammo" to make your bosses take it more seriously.

As far as the OEM stuff is concerned, there is no way for you as an OEM to know the system parameters (Fault current, and OCPD clearing times) so you are not responsible, plus the end user may change settings or add/remove loads that would affect the fault current. I recommend that you follow the lead of other OEMs and put the generic arc flash hazard warning sticker on the equipment.

 

[76nemo]

Technically OSHA is already enforcing it, had been since around 2001 after the Ford settlement case.

In reality it varies by state, enforcement is in full swing in OH, not so much in the south. Also depends on if you are in a state with a state regulated OSHA or if your saste follows federal OSHA.

Where are you?

zog, what exactly happened with the Ford incident? I don't remember hearing anything about it????

 

[zog]

the report is available online, but basically was a bad arc flash accident that went to settlement court,first time (For a big company anyways) that OSHA used the general duty clause for 70E enforcement.

Dbaird, did you get what you needed?

 

[davidr43229]

The 1st recorded NFPA-70E was at a GM plant in Rochester NY, where 2 workers were burned over 20% / 60% of their entire body with 2nd & 3rd degree burns. They were awarded $665,000 & $10,340,000 respectively in 2000/ 2002.
In 2005, COLUMBUS, Ohio - OSHA, proposed penalties of $132,750 following an investigation into alleged ? safety violations at a Marysville, Ohio worksite, ?
The company, ... performing electrical work at the ? facility in Marysville in February when two employees were severely burned by an electrical arc flash. As a result ?, the company received citations for two serious and two willful violations. This subcontractor settled out of court for $99,000.
OEM Panel Companies are now being asked by the Automotive companies, to produce an Industrial Controller with a MAX Arc Flash of level 0 or 1. This is only achievable if the OEM machine builder works with the End user to provide a finate amount of Available Fault Current.
In regards to SCCR values, some automotive companies are asking for 65K, while other automotive companies are only asking for 25k, due to 30' drops with #10 wire.
I believe the key here is to work with the End User and find out what their needs really are, rather than looking at a generic spec.
Ultimately the The burden then is on the end-user (AHJ) to evaluate and provide the appropriate power components to the Equipment.
Just my $.02

 

[zog]

Nope it was Ford, it was in Buffalo, NY, and it happened in 1999 (Settlement in 2001)

Here is the link to the OSHA Docket

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2001/00-0763.html

 

[dbaird]

zog,

Yes thanks for your help!!

 

[rdrigg]

Google "Donnie's Accident" and watch what can happen when you don't wear the "space suit" Then picture yourself having to tell an employee's family that their loved one was involved in an accident that could have been either prevented or at the very least could have had less terrrible consequences.