arc flash

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electricalperson said:
no i dont wear a hood we dont have one. thats why i would like to buy the level 3 or level 4 kit since they come with hoods. they also sell hoods i could wear under the hardhat and faceshield i could get
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For about $50 for a hood, I strongly suggest you buy one! Let me find you a good link from Salisbury. Hold tight, grab a beer, you're not on the job:grin:
 
another question

another question

ItsHot said:
What level of protection does cotton jeans and all cotton long sleeve shirts offer?
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ALso was just curious, if osha states that at no time that energized equipment should be worked on while energized,(99% of the time) then why is arc flash wear necessary?:confused:
 
ItsHot said:
ALso was just curious, if osha states that at no time that energized equipment should be worked on while energized,(99% of the time) then why is arc flash wear necessary?:confused:
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How are you going to do PQA otherwise???? I don't like the idea either, but it is how it is........
 
electricalperson said:
i was never taught correctly about ppe. i have a copy of 70e and it says all thats needed is level 2. i was wondering if level 2 is good enough. sorry im not a ppe expert like everyone else
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I am just concerned about what you are doing with this gear.

I will attempt to be more helpful, you need to look at the notes in the tables, depending on if you have the 2000 or 2004 70E and if you have the 1st printing or the latest printing that revised the notes tables, the 600V rated switchgear PPE recomandations are based on pretty low available fault currents and have pretty fast clearing times assumed.

Now I may be wrond, you may have a sub that has had the main breaker retrofitted with a Quick Trip system or other arc flash reduction switch, or maybe you are dealing with arc rated switchgear, but I am guessing not in which case the tables are invalid.

Also dont confuse the HRC 2 with the HRC 2* PPE requirements in the tables.
 
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electricalperson said:
heres what i normally do with 480 volt panels

step 1: get tools from truck
step 2: get ladder depending on size of equipment
step 3: come up with a plan on what i want to do and how to do it correctly
step 4: shut panel down
step 5: slap on level 2 ppe gear
step 6: remove cover and remove cover over the breakers if needed
step 7: measure voltage on busbars to make sure its deenergized
step 8: do the work i planned on doing (punching holes, putting breaker in, pull conductors in)
step 10: megger circuit i pulled in if i done that at the time of doing the work.
step 11: close panel
step 12: turn breaker on
last but least
step 13: smile and go home

whats wrong with that?
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Sounds good assuming you are wearing the right PPE to check your panel dead, you have locked out the equipment, and your meter is CAT III rated. Nice to see you megger the circuit befoe you turn it on after mods, thats a lost art!
 
76nemo said:
Let's back up a minute zog. NO question is off base on PPE. The more stress we add, the better off our members are!
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I didnt mean the question was off base, in fact I am glad he asked, most would just make the wrong asumption. I meant the HRC 2 PPE assumption was way off for this paticular equipment.
 
76nemo said:
You don't wear a hood EP?????
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70E released a change last month, for HRC 2* tasks a arc rated facesheild and arc rated head sock (Both at least 10 cal) can be used in lieu of the hood for HRC 2* tasks.
 
zog said:
I am just concerned about what you are doing with this gear.

I will attempt to be more helpful, you need to look at the notes in the tables, depending on if you have the 2000 or 2004 70E and if you have the 1st printing or the latest printing that revised the notes tables, the 600V rated switchgear PPE recomandations are based on pretty low available fault currents and have pretty fast clearing times assumed.

Now I may be wrond, you may have a sub that has had the main breaker retrofitted with a Quick Trip system or other arc flash reduction switch, or maybe you are dealing with arc rated switchgear, but I am guessing not in which case the tables are invalid.

Also dont confuse the HRC 2 with the HRC 2* PPE requirements in the tables.
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im not doing a job inside that gear right now. but i was just wondering if the level 2 gear is good enough for something that size. i dont think it is since it seems like thin cloth and cheap plastic to protect against something thats as hot as the sun. i wont work inside any switch gear alive. not worth the chance. right now the panels i work in mostly are under 1000 amps. personally i dont think the ppe thats provided is good enough for the danger of the arc itself not including the blast that could come with it.
 
ItsHot said:
ALso was just curious, if osha states that at no time that energized equipment should be worked on while energized,(99% of the time) then why is arc flash wear necessary?:confused:
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How does it get de-energized? You have to operate (And possibly rack out) the breaker, that requires arc flash PPE, you have to verify the equipment de-energized with an appropriate rated meter, that requires arc flash PPE, and depending on the equipment, you may need to install personal protective grounds, yep requires arc flash PPE.

Arc Flash is not all about working on energized equipment, people tend to forget that.
 
zog said:
I didnt mean the question was off base, in fact I am glad he asked, most would just make the wrong asumption. I meant the HRC 2 PPE assumption was way off for this paticular equipment.
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i wasnt the guy that bought the gear either. i understand the pressure involved with the blast too. do you think wearing armor such as a flak jacket or something like that is a good idea also?
 
EP,

I appluaud your efforts to do the right thing, but remmember working on 480V panels is much different than working on 3000A switchgear, the fact that people dont understand that (Because they falsly believe all 480V has about the same hazards) is why OSHA has specific qualification requirement for working in dist substations and why 70E has specific training requirements.

If you dont understand the requirements, which as you said, you dont, you are not qualified to do this type of work, your employer can face monster fines if you were injured on the job. Your employer is responsible and required to provide you with the required training, not just a copy of the 70E.

I will be happy to recommend several quality training programs and the requirements for you to take to your boss to get this training, and the right PPE for what you are being asked to do.,
 
zog said:
EP,

I appluaud your efforts to do the right thing, but remmember working on 480V panels is much different than working on 3000A switchgear, the fact that people dont understand that (Because they falsly believe all 480V has about the same hazards) is why OSHA has specific qualification requirement for working in dist substations and why 70E has specific training requirements.

If you dont understand the requirements, which as you said, you dont, you are not qualified to do this type of work, your employer can face monster fines if you were injured on the job. Your employer is responsible and required to provide you with the required training, not just a copy of the 70E.

I will be happy to recommend several quality training programs and the requirements for you to take to your boss to get this training, and the right PPE for what you are being asked to do.,
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i dont think the company will pay for that kind of training for us. but if the opprotunity came up that i could go to a ppe class i would do it. im always willing to do something like that to better myself in my career. any training companies in MA offer that kind of stuff? i sometimes get papers in the mail from american trainco or something like that and they offer an arc flash seminar if im not mistaken..is that a good program?
 
electricalperson said:
i dont think the company will pay for that kind of training for us. but if the opprotunity came up that i could go to a ppe class i would do it. im always willing to do something like that to better myself in my career. any training companies in MA offer that kind of stuff? i sometimes get papers in the mail from american trainco or something like that and they offer an arc flash seminar if im not mistaken..is that a good program?
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Sorry dont know any in MA, anything but American Trainco, they have these horrible pre canned classes, if they sell a class they call a local trainer, could be a computer guy or anything, and have him use thier material, total rip off, you will learn more in this forum.

Your employer dosent have a choice, he is required tp provide you with the training and the correct PPE.
 
It was mentioned earlier and then kind of glossed over. I hear it all the time so it bears repeating.

The full load amps of the equipment have nothing to do with the size of the arc flash that can occur.

Arc flash incident energy, and resulting PPE, is dependent on the amount of fault current and the time it takes a protective device to open.

A fused 400A circuit with only 2000A of fault current will have a much higher PPE requirement than will a 400A circuit with 4000A of fault current protected by a circuit breaker with an instantaneous trip.
 
jim dungar said:
It was mentioned earlier and then kind of glossed over. I hear it all the time so it bears repeating.

The full load amps of the equipment have nothing to do with the size of the arc flash that can occur.

Arc flash incident energy, and resulting PPE, is dependent on the amount of fault current and the time it takes a protective device to open.

A fused 400A circuit with only 2000A of fault current will have a much higher PPE requirement than will a 400A circuit with 4000A of fault current protected by a circuit breaker with an instantaneous trip.
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Yeah, the time factor (exposure time) is the real killer in regards to arc flash hazards.

Often times the minimum fault current can produce the worst-case arc flash hazard due to the protective device operating times and in fact, most guidelines recommend a fault current reduction when assessing arc flash hazards at lower voltages.

480 Volt equipment can be very dangerous. Arcs at this voltage tend to be self sustaining and the amount of energy released can be considerable.
 
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