Are all brands of breakers having nuisance trip issues?

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James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I used Siemens a year ago on a duplex where the builder bought all the materials. Had one issue so far, but it turned out to be a bad vacuum cleaner.

I use Eaton BR on new installs if I buy the materials. On remodel I match existing if possible.

Very rarely any issues from BR, whether afci, gfci, or dual function.

Never any issues with Eaton CH
Never any issues with QO

I'll try Homeline dual functions for the first time soon. I roughed in a kitchen a week ago with seven 20 amp and one 15 amp circuits
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
hillbilly1 said:
Just started using Siemens loadcenters, and today swapped over from a 60 amp fuse box to a 150 amp panel. Got five minutes away from the job, everything working great (which really surprised me with all of the existing hack job wiring) when the homeowner calls me and says they were using the microwave, and lost all power. Got back, they had only tripped one breaker, ( afci/gfi combo) they didn’t notice they still had lights and power in other parts of the house! Ran the microwave, a couple of times, then it would trip. A couple of more times, then another trip. Of course the customer complained they never had a problem with the microwave before, but then since everything was fused at 30 or 50 amps, I wonder why? (Washer outlet was tagged off the water heater circuit) Microwave circuit was pulling 13 amps.
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Yep, you have to figure in the new circuits when you upgrade an oversized fused panel. For sure their will be some tripping. Or like the customer told me " Their be a shortage up in here"
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Buck Parrish said:
Yep, you have to figure in the new circuits when you upgrade an oversized fused panel. For sure their will be some tripping. Or like the customer told me " Their be a shortage up in here"
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I meant to take a picture of it today before I demoed it! LOL! 60 amp main pull out had fuse taped in to make contact with the clip. Four 30 amp Edison base fuse holders with one burnt out. Stove and dryer on 50 amp pull out, water heater and washer on 30 amp pullout, the rest of the house on the remaining 30 amp Edison base fuses! The wife did ask if she could cook and do laundry at the same time now! LOL!
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Yep that's common. I was going to say in older homes, But I've seen it in new ones, too. It's probably going to continue for years to come.
But I've learned not to question when the wife's doing laundry. If she's setting on the couch watching TV and she's folding clothes, That's doing laundry. Don't question it.
 
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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
James L said:
I used Siemens a year ago on a duplex where the builder bought all the materials. Had one issue so far, but it turned out to be a bad vacuum cleaner.

I use Eaton BR on new installs if I buy the materials. On remodel I match existing if possible.

Very rarely any issues from BR, whether afci, gfci, or dual function.

Never any issues with Eaton CH
Never any issues with QO

I'll try Homeline dual functions for the first time soon. I roughed in a kitchen a week ago with seven 20 amp and one 15 amp circuits
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Supposedly the key functioning internals of Homeline and QO are the same components.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Buck Parrish said:
Good to know.. but what about the little orange indicator in the QO
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An additional component that is a convenience and not a necessity to function. When Homeline was first introduced it was supposed to have all the same main operating components as the QO. I would presume the main components of AFCI, GFCI and DF versions are also the same components.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Finally got back to check why the microwave was tripping the Siemens Arc fault/gfci combo, found a hidden plug strip they had it plugged in to, removed it, still tripped, moved it to the other side of the kitchen onto another circuit, worked fine. Got to tracking the circuit back, found several flying splices in the open in a back utility room. Fixed both of those, and replaced the receptacle. Problem solved!
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
hillbilly1 said:
Finally got back to check why the microwave was tripping the Siemens Arc fault/gfci combo, found a hidden plug strip they had it plugged in to, removed it, still tripped, moved it to the other side of the kitchen onto another circuit, worked fine. Got to tracking the circuit back, found several flying splices in the open in a back utility room. Fixed both of those, and replaced the receptacle. Problem solved!
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Did you use the onboard diagnostics?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
hillbilly1 said:
Just looked up Siemens troubleshooting page, and it says something totally different, it says it was an arc fault.
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What that means is the arc fault function of the breaker is what caused it to trip, and not necessarily that there really was an arc fault. Since you repaird some open splices and that seemed to fix things - maybe one of them had poor connection? AFCI can't detect flying splices, but can possibly detect arcing in any poorly made up connection.

Had it indicated ground fault function was causing the trip - that is your clue to look for things like neutral to ground faults more so than looking for bad connections.

Neither AFCI or GFCI function indication means it is tripping on thermal or magnetic overload - the old "standard breaker" functions are what is tripping it.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
kwired said:
What that means is the arc fault function of the breaker is what caused it to trip, and not necessarily that there really was an arc fault. Since you repaird some open splices and that seemed to fix things - maybe one of them had poor connection? AFCI can't detect flying splices, but can possibly detect arcing in any poorly made up connection.

Had it indicated ground fault function was causing the trip - that is your clue to look for things like neutral to ground faults more so than looking for bad connections.

Neither AFCI or GFCI function indication means it is tripping on thermal or magnetic overload - the old "standard breaker" functions are what is tripping it.
Click to expand...
The flying splice was just twisted wires with tape on them, switch was screwed to a log, no box! LOL! Dang it! Keep forgetting to take pictures!
 
James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Back in the early 90s I moonlighted for a company that did work for a fire restoration contractor. Almost every fire job I saw was electrical fire.

Showed up to one that was gutted down to the studs and was horrified by what I saw. Every single run of wire was at least 2 pieces horribly spliced together on the fly. Some runs were 4 and 5 pieves spliced. Like somebody found a barrel of scrap romex and wired a house with it - and didn't waste one inch of it

I found out the homeowner had wired that house himself. That house could have used some arc fault protection 😑
 
readydave8

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
hillbilly1 said:
I meant to take a picture of it today before I demoed it! LOL! 60 amp main pull out had fuse taped in to make contact with the clip. Four 30 amp Edison base fuse holders with one burnt out. Stove and dryer on 50 amp pull out, water heater and washer on 30 amp pullout, the rest of the house on the remaining 30 amp Edison base fuses! The wife did ask if she could cook and do laundry at the same time now! LOL!
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reminds me of circuit that kept tripping after fusebox replacement

when customer called, I asked him which circuit kept tripping

"the one with the freezer, refrigerator, window unit AC, washing machine . . ."
 
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