Are these legal behind a wall? Non-accessible

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Rick 0920 said:
Please clarify. I believe its almost verbatim.
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As written 300.14 says,
"At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaries or devices."

You added the words "before any splices or terminations".

It's not a code violation to splice onto a conductor to get the required free conductor length.
 
ActionDave said:
As written 300.14 says,
"At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaries or devices."

You added the words "before any splices or terminations".

It's not a code violation to splice onto a conductor to get the required free conductor length.
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I'm not saying you're wrong, it's not my place. But there are a lot of electricians, contractors and inspectors that disagree with that and interpret this section differently. That's what makes forums like these great. It would be very boring if everyone agreed with everyone! :)
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's not my place. But there are a lot of electricians, contractors and inspectors that disagree with that and interpret this section differently. That's what makes forums like these great. It would be very boring if everyone agreed with everyone! :)
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Well I'll say it. As an electrical instructor are you teaching that splicing a wire in a junction box is a code violation? If you are then you are wrong.

The words "before any splices or terminations" are not in the NEC, there is nothing to interpret.
 
ActionDave said:
Well I'll say it. As an electrical instructor are you teaching that splicing a wire in a junction box is a code violation? If you are then you are wrong.

The words "before any splices or terminations" are not in the NEC, there is nothing to interpret.
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I'm teaching them to leave at least 6" of free conductor before any splices or terminations. I may be be misinterpreting this but I do know the NEC is minimum standards. I'll continue to teach them that they can do something better than just minimum.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'm teaching them to leave at least 6" of free conductor before any splices or terminations.
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That's certainly best practice, and satisfies 300.14, but I agree with ActionDave that "free conductor" does not mean "unspliced conductor."

I'm curious to ask, under your interpretation, what is the safety issue that 300.14 would be trying to address by requiring that the 6" be unspliced? In old work situations, sometimes there's less conductor in the box without splicing, and I'm trying to understand what would be so problematic as to require repulling conductors or cables, rather than just splicing.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
That's certainly best practice, and satisfies 300.14, but I agree with ActionDave that "free conductor" does not mean "unspliced conductor."

I'm curious to ask, under your interpretation, what is the safety issue that 300.14 would be trying to address by requiring that the 6" be unspliced? In old work situations, sometimes there's less conductor in the box without splicing, and I'm trying to understand what would be so problematic as to require repulling conductors or cables, rather than just splicing.

Cheers, Wayne
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One safety issue I could see with not have at least 6" before a splice would be if for some reason you HAD to work something hot, if you couldn't pull the splice completely out of a metal box, your linemans could hit the edge of the box causing a short. I find it much easier and safer to work live conductors when they can be pulled completely out of the box. I know this isn't the case with old house wiring where the boxes were so small and the nails were driven through the inside of the box. Thankfully in modern situations, they make boxes with enough cu. in. capacity to leave more length of conductor before splices or pigtails. I agree with you on the point that in old work situations, if the splice is made properly, there would be no safety hazard. I just try to wire in a manner that makes splicing easier. I feel much safer when working something hot if I have enough length to move the conductors out of the way.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'm teaching them to leave at least 6" of free conductor before any splices or terminations. I may be be misinterpreting this but I do know the NEC is minimum standards. I'll continue to teach them that they can do something better than just minimum.
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In my class I start off with 90.1 and make it very clear if you want to do something stupid or wrong the NEC is not going to stop you.
 
The reason I interpret this like I do is this:
300.14 6" of free conductor.......................shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires or devices.
I think if they intended for spliced conductors to be permitted to be shorter than those needed for luminaires or devices, they would have left the word "splices" out of there or included an exception that stated that conductors that were spliced only shall be permitted to be shorter than the 6" requirement.
 
It's been more than a year at least since Charlie's Rule has shown up on the forum.
Charlie's Rule of Technical Reading

It doesn't say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn't say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don?t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

Copyright 2005, Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle, WA
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Rick 0920 said:
I see your point. Now here's mine. If they intended for spliced conductors to be less than 6", it would say it. :)
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I just got off the phone with Mike. He is in agreement with you and is going to send me some NEC documentation about back in '08 when he submitted a change proposal stating that 6" be left before any splices. So evidently I have been taught wrong and interpreted this section wrong. But I have had fun with the bantering back and forth. This is a great forum. Thank you guys.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I just got off the phone with Mike. He is in agreement with you and is going to send me some NEC documentation about back in '08 when he submitted a change proposal stating that 6" be left before any splices. So evidently I have been taught wrong and interpreted this section wrong. But I have had fun with the bantering back and forth. This is a great forum. Thank you guys.
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Im seeing this from a practical point...
Lets say a box is installed correctly with 6” free conductor. “Something” happens in the box causing the conductor to short out and now the bad part of the conductor has to be cut out, and now it’s 2” long...

Do we rewire the entire run to get the 6” free conductor, move the box up or down to gain the 6” free conductor, or do we splice the wire to get the 6” free conductor?
 
Hv&Lv said:
Do we rewire the entire run to get the 6” free conductor, move the box up or down to gain the 6” free conductor, or do we splice the wire to get the 6” free conductor?
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I would do the last one, and have; usually with little orange wire nuts or 2-hole push-in splices. I'm also okay with joining more than one short wire and adding a pigtail when necessary.

In my opinion, the 6" wire-length rule applies to new work, and is not a requirement that this must be maintained throughout the life of the installation. I doubt it's always been in the NEC.

Since I never responded to the OP, I have used the Tyco-type joiners when they were the best or only viable option, like adding a tap in the middle of a run, to avoid adding two boxes.

I always shape the conductors to pass straight through the insulation-displacing prongs for maximum contact especially when using the tap type.
 
Hv&Lv said:
Im seeing this from a practical point...
Lets say a box is installed correctly with 6” free conductor. “Something” happens in the box causing the conductor to short out and now the bad part of the conductor has to be cut out, and now it’s 2” long...

Do we rewire the entire run to get the 6” free conductor, move the box up or down to gain the 6” free conductor, or do we splice the wire to get the 6” free conductor?
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I'm not looking at this from a service standpoint, but an installation one. Of course someone who is charging a customer should not charge $200/hr to repull a wire that they could safely splice. That to me would be unethical. I'm referring to the initial installation that needs inspection. Anyone that has done service work here knows that we can make things safe. I've had to cut in a "J" box before a little higher and put a blank plate to match the wall because wires were too short.
 
LarryFine said:
I would do the last one, and have; usually with little orange wire nuts or 2-hole push-in splices. I'm also okay with joining more than one short wire and adding a pigtail when necessary.

In my opinion, the 6" wire-length rule applies to new work, and is not a requirement that this must be maintained throughout the life of the installation. I doubt it's always been in the NEC.

Since I never responded to the OP, I have used the Tyco-type joiners when they were the best or only viable option, like adding a tap in the middle of a run, to avoid adding two boxes.

I always shape the conductors to pass straight through the insulation-displacing prongs for maximum contact especially when using the tap type.
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I agree. I will continue to leave the 6" of free conductor in new installations before any splices and terminations. The boxes today allow enough room for this. If a situation should arise where the conductor is damaged and could be spliced inside the box to make a correction. I would splice before pulling a new cable through the attic and dropping it down the wall.
 
Rick 0920 said:
One safety issue I could see with not have at least 6" before a splice would be if for some reason you HAD to work something hot, if you couldn't pull the splice completely out of a metal box, your linemans could hit the edge of the box causing a short. I find it much easier and safer to work live conductors when they can be pulled completely out of the box.
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Or if for some reason, you HAD to lick the wires . . .:cool::p
 
Fred B said:
Hillbilly1 is correct in that they are not listed to any heavy loads and are only rated for 300V not the typical 600V of most other wiring devices. Not sure though about the piercing connection the only one I had my hands on you strip the conductors similar to the wago connectors. There was one I saw for making a tap connection (tee shaped) that did have a piercing connection.
Inspectors around here have prohibited use of the TYCO on new construction, limiting it to repair work in already closed walls. Guys were trying to just throw these in on totally new runs where the cable they had was too short to reach the next box.
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wow! using on too-short wire runs! they should be unlicensed handyman.
 
I just discovered that Home depot no longer sell these. Good decision by them because these should not be used by non electrician homeowners. Up until 4 years ago I could not get them at electrical supply businesses.

6 years ago I was involved in wiring two 30 apartments each modular buildings with probably around 200+ of these plug in romex splices. I asked the maintenance person recently about any problems with the electrical circuitry and he said there's been no issues with them.
 
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