Are we the job police?

[celtic]

These may be questions specific to NJ, but I am looking for ALL opinions ~ and hopefully, supporting documentation.

BARRING ANY CONTRACT LANGUAGE:

Is the EC responsible for installing GFCI protection on temp power circuits?
Example; the project is several thousand square feet...EC supplies lighting and power drops.
Are we responsible for protecting those power drops with a GFCI ...or is other contractor responsible for providing portable GFCI protection to their manpower?


Does the EC have the authority to take out of service an x-cord that is damaged?

 

[iwire]

OSHA has at least one maybe more interpretations that specifically say that the EC is NOT responsible for the actions of employees of other contractors.

Each employer is responsible for protecting their employees.

When we remove our job temps we hang signs that say we are no longer providing temps and each contractor must use GFCI cords when plugging into the permanent power receptacles to comply with OSHA.

We do not enforce this, it is not our job to.

 

[emahler]

celtic,

i honestly don't know for sure, but from a legal and responsibility standpoint, we protect them...

last thing i need is some cheap contractor getting shocked and some schyster lawyer costing me money defending myself...right or wrong.

we just did a temp in a 4 story building up north...total of about 10,000 sq feet.

we just used GFCI receptacles...small price for insurance.

but, we installed 20 of them, and planned on it...it was in the price.

 

[mdshunk]

Does the EC have the authority to take out of service an x-cord that is damaged?

Depends on how big a boy you are. :grin: If another contractor tried to tag a piece of my own equipment out of service, he can expect unkind words and actions from me.

 

[iwire]

Celtic I just realized you where taking specifically about installing temporary receptacles.

In that case the NEC requires that they be GFCI protected or you enforce the ensured grounding conductor program. 590.6(A)

My post above had to do with using permanent wiring.

 

[celtic]

Depends on how big a boy you are. :grin: If another contractor tried to tag a piece of my own equipment out of service, he can expect unkind words and actions from me.

I'm talking about CUTTING the x-cord....tags, we don't need no stickin' tags!

 

[celtic]

In that case the NEC requires that they be GFCI protected or you enforce the ensured grounding conductor program. 590.6(A)

Under 590.6(A):

For the purposes of this section, cord sets or devices incorporating listed ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel identified for portable use shall be permitted.

...which would then bring 590.6(B)

Assured Equipment Grounding Conductor Program.
A written assured equipment grounding conductor program continuously enforced at the site by one or more designated persons to ensure that equipment grounding conductors for all cord sets, receptacles that are not a part of the permanent wiring of the building or structure, and equipment connected by cord and plug are installed and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of 250.114, 250.138, 406.3(C), and 590.4(D).

and then
590.6(B)(2)(a)(2)

(2) Each receptacle and attachment plug shall be tested for correct attachment of the equipment grounding conductor. The equipment grounding conductor shall be connected to its proper terminal

So we either GFI it or become the police?


Is there similar BOCA language?

 

[iwire]

I'm talking about CUTTING the x-cord....

Celtic IMO if you do that you are violating the law.

 

[celtic]

Celtic IMO if you do that you are violating the law.

...or at the very least having Marc load my tires up with nails.

 

[iwire]

Under 590.6(A):

...which would then bring 590.6(B)

One or the other, not both.

IMHO your destined for problems with assured equipment grounding program.

I also bet on a project of this size the GCs safety people will not go for it either.

Before I loose a decent link check this out. :smile:

03/22/2005 - Application of 1926.404(b)(1) to 208-volt branch circuits; requirement for electrical subcontractor under 1926.404(b)(1) to provide ground-fault circuit interrupters on circuits used by other subcontractors.


While your there you could search for OSHA standard Interpretations of the assured equipment grounding program.

 

[celtic]

IF...we went with the 590.6(A) I quoted, then the Assured Equipment Grounding Conductor Program becomes effective...right?

Will do Bob.
Thanks.

 

[celtic]

Before I loose a decent link check this out. :smile:

03/22/2005 - Application of 1926.404(b)(1) to 208-volt branch circuits; requirement for electrical subcontractor under 1926.404(b)(1) to provide ground-fault circuit interrupters on circuits used by other subcontractors.

That was right on the money.

Thanks again.

 

[celtic]

New question....
Again, may be specific to NJ, contract language not included...ALL opinions welcome.

Q: Are we, as ECs, required to even install ANY temp power or lighting?

 

[roger]

New question....
Again, may be specific to NJ, contract language not included...ALL opinions welcome.

Q: Are we, as ECs, required to even install ANY temp power or lighting?

Not here in NC

Roger

 

[iwire]

New question....
Again, may be specific to NJ, contract language not included...ALL opinions welcome.

Q: Are we, as ECs, required to even install ANY temp power or lighting?

Not by either the NEC or OSHA.

 

[celtic]

Not by either the NEC or OSHA.

Interesting.

There is no OSHA req'ment for lighting egress, stairwells, etc?

 

[iwire]

Interesting.

There is no OSHA req'ment for lighting egress, stairwells, etc?

There are if I remember correctly minimum illumination requirements in OSHA but they do not say that it is the ECs job to provide them.

IMO it is the responsibility of the building owner or there representive....the GC.

That usually means the GC ends up paying the EC on the job to provide temp power.

In our case I believe basic temps get written into the contract but I digress...

 

[celtic]

I understand.

Thanks guys

 

[roger]

I agree with Bob, there are specific requirements, but they are not on the EC's shoulders unless it is part of the contract documents making the EC responsible.

We EC's don't enforce other safety requirements on other contractors either, such as Hard Hat compliance or the required number of Porta Johns on a job site etc...

Roger

 

[celtic]

We EC's don't enforce other safety requirements on other contractors either, such as Hard Hat compliance or the required number of Porta Johns on a job site etc...

True (but I'll bitch if the Human Waste Crock Pot isn't cleaned weekly)....

But...heading back a few posts to "cutting an x-cord"....

If we were to follow the AEGCP, and other trades' cords were the typical disaster that they are ....what is the EC's obligation?
Document and let them carry on?