Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

[electricmanscott]

I installed a Monorail ( www.techlighting.com ) lighting system yesterday and the people just called me saying there is something dripping from the transformer. The transf is 600 watt magnetic type and is maxed out. Not something I am familiar with so I am ready for some help.

[ April 28, 2005, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Scott,
that I can recall, I've never installed that brand.
But, could the ballast have had some kind of oil on the coil? I think my parents actually had something like this happen years ago with this type of light, but a different brand.
I don't believe the ballast was such as a fluorescent with the black tar dripping, but more like a HID ballast with open copper coils, and it leaked, or melted off some kind of clear gook.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

I thought UL limited the wattage on low voltage circuits? At 600 watts the secondary current would be 50 amps. (Edited to add: If the secondary is @ 12 volts)
Most systems we install we can only get 150 watt power supply's for indoor use and 300 watt for outdoor use?

I would report this to UL and the manufacture as if this has caused any damage to the floor covering they should be liable.

It sounds like a fire waiting to happen.

[ April 28, 2005, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[curt swartz]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Wayne, I?m not sure where you are getting the limits from but 300 watt 12 volt and 600 watt 24 volt transformers are very common. I have used transformers this size from several manufactures and all have been UL listed. The maximum output on 12 volt transformer is usually 300 watts and 600 watts for a 24 volt but higher wattage transformers are readily available that have multiple outputs. 150 watts would be useless for most low voltage rail, cable and track installations.

Scott, I have used the Tech transformers before but haven?t had any problems so can?t be of much help. How much load do you have connected?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

More info, the transformer has two outputs at 300 watts each (12V). Both are fully loaded to their 300 watt rating. There is a dimmer controlling the system and it is a 1000 watt magnetic low voltage dimmer. I have not seen the "liquid" yet but it sounds like a clear gook kind of thing. The good news is the transformer is 12 feet in the air over an island in a kitchen and weighs about 20 pounds. :roll: Going in the A.M. to check it out.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Curt Your right I went back and did some reading. 411 allows up to 25 amps for each circuit on the secondary at a max of 30 volts. This would allow 300 watts @ 12 volts and 600 watts @24 volts. And that 411 does say's that a power supply can have more than one circuit @25 amps so WOW. But they do have to be listed as a system (411.3)

Here is what UL had to say about it:
Low- voltage Lighting Listed Systems

 

[peter d]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

I find the $1 keyless porcelain socket makes a great designer fixture at a bargain price, and there is no mysterious goo that leaks out when it malfunctions.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

On a funny note peter I had a service call to a house we wired that the home owner said each new bulb she was installing in here basement would flash real brite then go right out. So when I got there she had one installed and waiting to show me when she fliped the switch on yep it flashed just like a camera flash then it went out. I knew we didn't have this circuit on a multiwire so I removed the bulb and looked at the label it said 50 watts at 12 volts. When I told here the cause she couldn't belive it. She had about 15 of these bulbs left so I traded here for 130 volt ones and I use them in 12 volt drop lites for our trucks. Makes a good work lite when you have no power.

 

[templdl]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

On one job I simply used one of those common outdoor weatherproof nonventilated transformers with the time motor that has 24v output and plenty of VA that is used for landscape lighting. I pulled the pins on the clock so it would never turn the transformer off. No problem with using a wall dimmer switch to control the input to the transformer.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

BY templdl:

On one job I simply used one of those common outdoor weatherproof nonventilated transformers with the time motor that has 24v output and plenty of VA that is used for landscape lighting. I pulled the pins on the clock so it would never turn the transformer off. No problem with using a wall dimmer switch to control the input to the transformer.

Now I would expect a red tag using a "outdoor" listed power supply indoors This would be a 110.3 violation as almost every one I have seen has a label right on it that states "FOR USE WITH OUTDOOR LANDSCAPE LIGHTING SYSTEMS ONLY" And the Intermatic's also state "DO NOT USE WITH A DIMMER"

Here is a link to there installation manual:
INTERMATIC MANUAL.gif

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Wayne,
we had a problem with that when the Endless Pool Co. supplied one for the indoor pool lights. We got to checking out all of their supplied equipment, and told them we would not be hooking it up.

 

[templdl]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Yes, your right, it may be contrary to the instructions but where is the hazard? This is a common transformer with a synchronous motor to drive the timer. Putting a dimmer on it simply causes that motor to stop turning when a dimmer is turner down to a specific point that causes the timer to stop which you don't need anyway. I've used one for some 10 years now in my home and also have one that I put a dimmer on for my outside lights. The only thing that I have to watch for is turning the dimmer down to a point where the clock motor stops. We like the dimmer for the outside lights because the lights are normally way to bright. The only reason that I can think of is that a transformer is bulky, heavy, and relatively expensive when compared to the less expensive power supplies. However, when it comes to your time and the cost of labor to replace failed power supplies the transformer may be a suitable alternative.
There is no noticable difference in heating either.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Well here's the problem. The dripping liquid was actually melted plastic. Anyone who has ever installed this type of system knows that all connections MUST be tight. Everything was at one point but probably after I assembled all the pieces the screw must have loosened up and I just didn't re check it. The phillips screw was loose and the connection heated up big time. Unfortunately my screw up, fortunately no major problems.

[ April 30, 2005, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Now accepting tips on resizing photos!

To see the whole setup look here. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/electricmanscott/DSC00514.jpg

[ April 30, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Over 24 hours since I admit my mistake and not one bashing. You guys are softer than I thought.

 

[peter d]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Over 24 hours since I admit my mistake and not one bashing. You guys are softer than I thought.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Argh! 600W Lighting transformer

That's more like it! Well done Peter! Seriously though the Tech Lighting stuff looks good but there is some horrific engineering on the parts. Of course the part I screwed up was a standard issue phillips screw. :roll: