Arguing with the electrical inspector

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pierre

does NY state require electrical contractors & inspectors to complete continuing education?
 
Gotta tell you about this one. Local inspector came to inspect a 200A service upgrade I had just completed. Everything was fine. As he's closing up the panel, he says:

"Just so you know, I like to see a GFCI breaker in the panel when there's a service upgrade."

In other words, "start putting in a GFCI breaker every time you do a service upgrade".

Worth arguing over? Not for me. I'm pretty easy going usually. I deal with several different jurisdictions. The best inspectors I've run into over the years were experienced electricians. Some with 25+ years. They are generally a real pleasure to work with, and even if they're not likeable, they're pretty good at the inspection end.

Worst inspectors? Kind of like the worst cops you run into. Young, no experience, in a position of authority, usually way over their head in that position.

But, I try to get along with them all. No reason not to try!

John
 
Re: Arguing with the electrical inspector

colosparker said:
Keeping in mind that where I live we have 4 different AHJ's (City, County State and Federal) when it comes to electrical work... Some of them use the 2005 NEC. Some use 2002. Heck some of them are still on the 96 NEC. And some of them just make up their own rules.
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We also deal with several cities, 3 counties, State and Federal AHJ's that use a variety of code cycles. The vast majority are knowledgeable, fair, and easy going. Some small suburbs have a all-trades-in-one inspector that usually worked in one trade before becoming an inspector. Large jurisdictions have a staff of electrical only inspectors. Seems, the large jurisdictions all tend to have at least one hard nose who gives the rest a bad name.

For what it's woth, I have the cell phone nuber for two inspectors in the city we do most of our work. On RARE occastions, I give them acall to "double check" their intrerpitations. Hey, it has saved my hide a few times.
 
As an inspector I felt it my duty to reply. After careful consideration I have this to say.

I don't care what you guys say I can or can't do. I don't work for you! The city hasn't fired me yet, so I must be doing a good job.

I am going back to the old way of doing things. I thought you here on the forum had convinced me that enforcing the Code - No More or No Less was the way to go. It is not.

It is much easier to make up my own interpretations. I'm through with teaching all the electricians I encounter what the NEC rules mean. If I think I have a good reason to require straps to be 24" apart on RMC or RNMC to have 36" of cover, then that is the way it shall be.

I see electricians all the time who don't understand the NEC, let alone have ever seen one. I'll just throw the book away and we'll be equal.

It is less stressful on me as I do not have to keep up with Code changes anymore. No more time wasted at seminars and reading books by people who know less than me.

And what about the people who write the Code? Are they living in a dreamworld or what? Either the requirements are too permissive or they do not go far enough. Maybe some of them used to be inspectors, but they are so far removed from what is going on in the field now, it's not funny!!

So to sum up. Argue with me all you want. I enjoy spirited debate. Just don't be under the impression you will be changing my mind. If anything, I will come back as being more restrictive.
 
Larry, and your point is? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Roger
 
Well Larry. Thank you for making my point.

Your worried about straps and inches.

Try hazards.

I suppose now I will get warned or kicked off.
 
sandsnow said:
I see electricians all the time who don't understand the NEC, let alone have ever seen one. I'll just throw the book away and we'll be equal.
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LMAO :lol:

Enjoy your more relaxing and less stressful job. :lol:
 
Larry, it was, notice my laughy's (is that a word?) :wink:

Roger
 
Gmack said:
Well Larry. Thank you for making my point.

Your worried about straps and inches.

Try hazards.

I suppose now I will get warned or kicked off.
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Hazards???? Try these on:

There is too much overloading in residential wiring, mostly because of DIYnerds. So:
All AL wire - gone
No more #14 CU
#12 Cu 15amp max
#10 CU 20 amp max
#8 CU 30 amp max
and so on

In commercial we will not be using the 75 degree ampacity. All OCPD will be at 60 degree C. No more 90 degree for derating. We'll use 60 degree for that as well

All structures shall have all electrodes in 250.50 just to be sure.

All GEC shall be 3/0

How's that?????? 8) :wink:
 
Larry,
I wasn't sure.
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your history has shown you are way to savvy and above something like your April fools post would have us believe, so it didn't take to much on my part to know better. :D

Roger
 
Larry I agree with Roger.

Gmack, Larry is concerned with hazards if you take the time to read his posts that becomes obvious.
 
See Larry, there you go again.

Way off NEC. That which your presumed to uphold.

It seems your at odds with your job AND electricians doing theirs.

No respect from me.
 
Gmack said:
See Larry, there you go again.

OOPS! Did I type that out loud??

Way off NEC. That which your presumed to uphold.

I got a wild smart aleck sense of humor. I do a pretty good job of enforcing just the Code. I've been shown to be wrong many times and always back down gracefully. I've learned a thing or two from some contractors. also here at the Forum. Sometimes I will make a call and go back and read the Code and find out I screwed up. I'm back on the job the next day to apologize for my mistake.

It seems your at odds with your job AND electricians doing theirs.

While my April Fool's post was in jest, it does express some frustrations I have sometimes.
Make no mistake. I enjoy talking to electricians regarding Code requirements. I will always insist we have a book so both of us can see the Code section. I enjoy my job the most when I work with a contractor They know I will listen to their argument if it is Code based or if the Code leaves room for an interpretation.
I will admit there are some who try my patience.
After many years seeing electricians with a lack of Code knowledge, I decided to give back. I taught Level 1 apprentice classes for many years and currently teach Code review for the CA certification test. I also have a 2002 changes class and a 3 night grounding seminar coming up.

No respect from me.
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I had thought of posting the above instead of my April Fool's post. Now you'll have to choose which one is the "correct one" :wink: :twisted: 8)
 
You got me

You got me

OK Larry, you got me, you played that pretty good. Pushed the right button and all. But even though you jest, you salted it with truth as from your experiences.

Well, I have run into things from inspectors, electrical inspectors that are a nightmare. Don't believe me? Try this one.

Modular house set on a basement in a rural local. I call for a final. I get a call from customer that it didn't pass and the inspector left a "note" for me.

It said " No grounding electrode conductor run to supply/incoming water pipe".

It was PVC.

I called his boss the building inspector and explained the situation.

He laughed, apologized and gave us the CO.

I don't know your history, qualifications and such, but your last post shows
experience and "good"compromise which is the hallmark of a good inspector.

In my area electrical inspectors are"like a box of chocolates". You literally don't know what your going to get.

Your little joke is not that far from reality sometimes.
 
flick said:
Gotta tell you about this one. Local inspector came to inspect a 200A service upgrade I had just completed. Everything was fine. As he's closing up the panel, he says:

"Just so you know, I like to see a GFCI breaker in the panel when there's a service upgrade."

In other words, "start putting in a GFCI breaker every time you do a service upgrade".

<snip>
John
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Do you have to hook it to anything, or just plug it into the panel?
:D
 
Here is a bad electrical contractor story since I see so many bad inspector stories

I once had an electrical contractor installing 4000 Wiremold in a school. He got all done and it was time to look at his work. Started popping off covers and noticed right away all of the internal couplings were missing. The electrician just butted all of the wiremold end to end with no means of mechanical connection. Internal and external corner couplings missing. Kind of like running EMT without the fittings. Owner, who ordered material,
claimed he didn't know what his journeyman was doing. Journeyman ended up losing his job. Approximately $3000 worth of fittings left out of the job. Lots of ungrounded metal raceway 12" above the classroom floor with all kinds of 120V conductors chafing on sharp edges inside that raceway. Most disturbing aspect was the day I checked contractors work the kids were leaning up against the wiremold in their reading circle on the floor.

I'm sure there are a lot of mistakes made by electrical inspectors, but for the most part they are looking out for the publics safety.
 
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