Power tripper. Seems the guy wants to play games...would be a prime time to contact "friends in high places" if he wants to do anything but the right thing. To throw money out the sindow is pretty offensive, just because you can. Someone of authority, must be able to put the brakes on for this misled individual?
Article 200.2
- Thread starter tomborchelt
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Power tripper. Seems the guy wants to play games...would be a prime time to contact "friends in high places" if he wants to do anything but the right thing. To throw money out the sindow is pretty offensive, just because you can. Someone of authority, must be able to put the brakes on for this misled individual?
macmikeman
Senior Member
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- Planet macmikeman
Putting that one inspectors issues aside for a moment, I have a similar question regarding the grounded conductor connection for 2 pole gfi breakers in spa/ hot tub disconnects. The white conductor of the gfi breaker is connected into a neutral busbar. The spa's I come across usually require no grounded conductor in the feed, just 2 ungrounded conductors and an equipment grounding conductor. Is it required anyway to run a grounded conductor from the panel serving the feeder to the neutral bus of the spa disconnect? Does the 2 pole gfi require that neutral connection to properly discern ground faults? (my understanding of how gfi's operate would say no, it is not required as the device senses unbalance of current between load conductors. However, I have had inspectors insist that there must be something to that neutral bus besides just the tail off the breaker. It seems that just the single white gfi breaker tail in the busbar and no other conductors run to that busbar is confusing to them. I am of the opinion that it is not required to have that white conductor land in a busbar at all, but that is about the best place to secure it anyhow. What say ye more knowing than myself about this?
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
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- Electrical Contractor
Yes, the white pigtail on the GFCI breaker must be attached to the supply neutral, whether the load requires a neutral or not.
That is one time it can be cheaper to install the GFCI breaker in the panel instead of the disconnect, so you need not use a feeder with a white wire.
macmikeman
Senior Member
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Larry, please help me out here, is there a code that requires this, or in the UL white book, or in the printed instructions that come with the 2 pole gfi breakers? I searched for it on more than one time before and I am unable to find a requirement that states it must have a connection to the supply neutral. That doesn't mean that there is no code requiring it, it just means I was unable to locate any code requiring it. (200.2 excepted, this is a feeder, not a "system" imho.)
macmikeman
Senior Member
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Then I used the search button and found this thread, which I followed all the way to the end and found the answers and links. http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=110842&highlight=pole+neutral
So no need to explain it to me after all Larry, I think I got it now, it is the test button circuitry that requires the neutral. I could almost swear that I hooked up a 2 pole gfi before that did not have any neutral pigtail on it at all but that is another story.........
So no need to explain it to me after all Larry, I think I got it now, it is the test button circuitry that requires the neutral. I could almost swear that I hooked up a 2 pole gfi before that did not have any neutral pigtail on it at all but that is another story.........
He sounds like one of those guys who say "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up".
steve
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Mike R Johnson
Member
I have requested that Mike Holt write a responce to this problem as i believe his statment would carry some weight with this. Mike Holts has not responded.
Anyone know how to get this message to Mike?
Don't know of any way to "forcibly" make Mike acknowledge
As I understand it, member ryan_618 writes up all of Mike's proposals. Perhaps a PM to him may persuade him to write up a Comment...???
I have heard that Bob does not agree with the application of this code and wants people to submit to the NEC have it changed. I do not agree with him enforcing it the way he interprets it when there is clearly a way around this issue. We ran up against this also and butted heads with him. I think it is hard headed the way he is handling this and making it very unfriendly to do business in the City of Hayward.
I would love to see other Electrical Inspectors chime in on this and state their opinions of this interpretation.
In Hayward run a neutral for all circuits, even if they don't need them? This is crazy.
I would love to see other Electrical Inspectors chime in on this and state their opinions of this interpretation.
In Hayward run a neutral for all circuits, even if they don't need them? This is crazy.
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