At work today a non English speaker got 277V

[emahler]

(incompetent)*(stupidity)=accident

actually....(incompetent)*(stupidity)=Gross Negligence



Main Entry:
ac?ci?dent Listen to the pronunciation of accident
Pronunciation:
\ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall — more at chance
Date:
14th century

1 a: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b: lack of intention or necessity : chance <met by accident rather than by design>

2 a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b: an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c: an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d— used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation

3: a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance <the accident of nationality>

It appears that the definition of an accident no longer takes common sense into account...who knew...

 

[hockeyoligist2]

I don't think I said accident? I remember all the safety training over the years saying "safety is no accident". Which is very true. There is no such thing as an accident. Someone somewhere caused whatever happened. Example: If a car loses a wheel, crashes, it isn't an accident, someone didn't assemble properly, not maintained, ETC. Someone could have prevented it.

But anyway, good news, he is recovering very well. Probably will be back at work in a few months.

 

[lloyd B]

They can say when is pay day.

They can say when is pay day.

I live in Tampa and we have a crew we call the Cubin Connection. If someone gets hurt the whole crew of them is out for the day, they are all related .The shop told us we were going to have to take spanish lessons to drop our workmans comp,yea right ,i have nothing against them but only about three of them can speak half way decent.Every day these guys are blowing something up and think its funny ,i cant babby sit all day long . They tried to give a truck away for no accidents for ninety days ,that was a year ago,LOL trucks still there.

 

[hockeyoligist2]

Update, this morning they fired the supervisor that was supposed to be sure the power was off, and locked out. Two electricians were given two weeks suspension for not following proper lockout procedures.

 

[Tori]

We would call this an -Incident -
And the Saftey director would be the first one we call
The General contractor would call OSHA
And the xxxx would hit the fan

Air is the safest way to go - get with the program
If you are not sure or don't know what it is you are doing
you life is in danger or worse you are putting your coworkers life in danger

It is not humorous or a one time thing - your safety program needs to be looked at and if you don't have one you will shortly not be working commercail jobs - Not new construction anyway .
Of course, some less than savory companies will pay these bills out of pocket in order to keep it from their insurance co. and keep their MOD rating down

 

[cowboyjwc]

Found this yesterday while I was working on an electrical safety board for the local street fair.



www.whscc.nb.ca/docs/ElecAcc.pdf

 

[bstoin]

Personally, I blame the one who was supervising the job.
It is his/her responsibility to make sure safe work practices are used. If there is a language barrier then either find someone who does understand the seriousness of details or find someone to translate. Myself, living in the Miami area has afforded me the privelege of learning another language so that I can communicate with my suborniates in english or spanish. If the situation would arise such as brought up in the OP I would make absolute sure that every word was understood. (In fact, I probably would not allow any of my suborninates to perform such a task...I DO NOT let any of my helpers work on live circuits...if something MUST be worked on live-and this is extremely rare-I would do it myself.)

Accident? depends on symantics
Negligent? the supervisor/foreman
Ignorant? the one who was burned

An accident/incident like this should NEVER happen...very unfortunate.

 

[jamesguy10]

Ahhhhh... The smell of burning flesh. I burnt one of my hands pretty good when i was just starting out. Still got the scars. Working in an old pushmatic panel with the little #18 grounding conductors. I was holding one and it hit one of the main lugs. Ouch. And the A$$ I was working for made wash my hand, run it under water for 15 minutes, neosporin it, bandage it, and put a latex glove on over it. 45 minutes later i had to finish my days work. Actually, my last day of work for that man.

 

[LarryFine]

You should go home everyday looking like you did when you left the house that morning.

I do: eyes red and half-closed, feet dragging, mumbling incoherently . . .






And no, I don't mean to make light of this thread. I also never ask any of my guys to do anything they're uncomfortable with, and don't allow the ones who are too eager to work on anything live; it's an art.

When I was in 7th grade, a friend and fellow student received a severe electrical burn in school from a 277v lighting circuit where a switch box was missing a blank plate, likely from a previously-removed switch.

He innocently stuck his fingertips into the box while rounding a corner and looking back to another friend's hail. This resulted in a long-overdue county-wide repairing of such vandalized electrical systems.

 

[khixxx]

I guess this goes back to being a qualified person.

Tom tells me to disconnect ATS.
Tom says "Yeah good buddy ol pal, The power is off don't worry I am not stupid trust me".
Ken then says "I will check this with my trusty multi meter doing a dead hot dead test first then test the ATS to make sure there is know power before I stick my hands in there".

My buddy got hit with a 277v light circuit load. He told me alls he remembers was trying to take the cover off the box in the ceiling then a helicopter ride to the hospital. He still gets massive head aches. He has been off work for over a year.

 

[realolman]

I guess this goes back to being a qualified person.

Tom tells me to disconnect ATS.
Tom says "Yeah good buddy ol pal, The power is off don't worry I am not stupid trust me".
Ken then says "I will check this with my trusty multi meter doing a dead hot dead test first then test the ATS to make sure there is know power before I stick my hands in there".

My buddy got hit with a 277v light circuit load. He told me alls he remembers was trying to take the cover off the box in the ceiling then a helicopter ride to the hospital. He still gets massive head aches. He has been off work for over a year.

I love your "if you're gonna be stupid" line.

I would never be insulted by someone double checking what I told them was off before he touched it.... It'd suit me if he'd check it before I touched it.

 

[mattsilkwood]

I guess this goes back to being a qualified person.

Tom tells me to disconnect ATS.
Tom says "Yeah good buddy ol pal, The power is off don't worry I am not stupid trust me".
Ken then says "I will check this with my trusty multi meter doing a dead hot dead test first then test the ATS to make sure there is know power before I stick my hands in there".

My buddy got hit with a 277v light circuit load. He told me alls he remembers was trying to take the cover off the box in the ceiling then a helicopter ride to the hospital. He still gets massive head aches. He has been off work for over a year.

i learned that the hard way got hit by 277 on a rtu, never trusted anyone again.the thing about it is 277 hurts!

 

[khixxx]

i learned that the hard way got hit by 277 on a rtu, never trusted anyone again.the thing about it is 277 hurts!

Yeah gotta love those open neutrals as well. Who would have thunk it, Someone pulled 12/4 for a circuit on a GFCI breaker. I guess the good news is all 3 circuits needed to be on a GFCI, They at least know that much.

 

[dab]

this is exactly the reason the local powers that be worked so hard to get california as a state that requires electricians and trainees to be certified or in a state or federally approved apprenticeship program. i have been responsible for on the job training of apprentices who were in their first year. they can't be left alone. if he gets hurt under your direction you can be held personally liable.

 

[ee4fire]

Most people don't realize 277/480 VAC acts more like 1000 volts than it does 120/208 VAC. 277/480 volts will sustain an arc, 120 volts usually does not. As a forensic engineer I see too many "accidents" that are lapses in training, attention or judgement.

Safety is everyone's concern especially the person performing the work that can be dangerous or deadly. There are reasons why laws, rules and regulations are in place. This is not the thread to discuss the illegal immigration problem, but one problem that is has caused on job sites are too many people not understanding each other. Just remember the Biblcal story of the Tower of Babel, what did God do to stop the construction? He had workers start speaking in different languages and it stopped it cold. We should start asking ourselves which is more important political correctness or someone's life.

This is not the only case of workers getting hurt because of a language barrier, and when are we going to speak up about it? My other question is who is getting sued and by whom?

 

[dlhoule]

this is exactly the reason the local powers that be worked so hard to get california as a state that requires electricians and trainees to be certified or in a state or federally approved apprenticeship program. i have been responsible for on the job training of apprentices who were in their first year. they can't be left alone. if he gets hurt under your direction you can be held personally liable.

Yes, we have similar law in Michigan, but until some gets hurt, there is seldom much enforcement of the rules and regulations regarding proper training.

 

[inspector23]

old trick

old trick

Something I picked up BC (Before Cellphones). When pushing a fish tape into live panel, a safer way to prevent accidental short circuits is to remove the locknut where the conduit enters the panel and replace it with a female connector and cap (or a rigid coupling and threaded plug, be careful not to drop it). When you can push no further, unscrew the female connector or the threaded plug, only the tip of the fish tape will be exposed. Then replace the locknut.

Now I am psychic - I know you will say ?I NEVER push a tape into a live panel.?

It happens?..everyday. Does that make it right or safe? Of course not. But if it is going to be done, then at least do it as safely as you can.

BTW - the "BC" comment is referencing the fact that now almost all tapes into live panels are done with nextell radios between the two installers.