ATS without a generator

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hillbilly1 said:
Many utilities and retailers have automatic transferswitches installed, but do not have permanent generators, they rent or have portables in storage to be dispatched to the site during hurricanes and other known natural disasters for back up if needed. Saves having to place a generator at every site. I did one for a large telephone switching station that backed up the two one meg generators in case both of those failed, or were under maintaince. The AHJ may balk at it because someone may install a generator later without permiting the install, but legally, until they do it, there's nothing he can do about it, unless it is written into the local code.
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Auto-transfers for portables? I'm having a hard time with that.

I put in many transfer switches for Verizon. All were intended for portable back up generators. All were manual transfer.

The purpose of an ATS is to start an genny that is already there and I have only seen hard wired ones, never any for portables.
 
K8MHZ said:
Auto-transfers for portables? I'm having a hard time with that.

I put in many transfer switches for Verizon. All were intended for portable back up generators. All were manual transfer.

The purpose of an ATS is to start an genny that is already there and I have only seen hard wired ones, never any for portables.
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I agree and have inspected three of them in the last year for Verizon. I don't see the need for a ATS in this situation legal or not.
 
K8MHZ said:
Auto-transfers for portables? I'm having a hard time with that.

I put in many transfer switches for Verizon. All were intended for portable back up generators. All were manual transfer.

The purpose of an ATS is to start an genny that is already there and I have only seen hard wired ones, never any for portables.
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If your ever in Macon, GA, Check out Verizon's switching station off Pio Nono (I think it is Washington street). If I remember correctly, this is a 1200 or 2000 amp 480 volt three phase installation, not one of those puny 200 amp single phase residential grade installations. Many water departments have this set up too, there is a two wire connection that is made on top of connecting the generator feeds. If you have ever hooked up any of the larger portables, you will see that they have the "Auto" function. There is a two wire start input for the remote start.
 
ceb58 said:
Look at 702.4 (B) (2) 2011. Something similar to this was brought up a while back. I think the question was would it pass inspection without the gen. in place.
IMPO if I were the inspector I would not pass it with just the ATS.
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My problem with inspection decisions like this is it seems like the (hypothetical) inspector in this situation is simply looking for a reason to nail an install based on a violation that MAY happen in the future.
I can deal with a hard-@ss inspector that nails me for 55 inches between NM staples, even respect it. But an imaginary violation is frustrating.
 
elohr46 said:
I agree and have inspected three of them in the last year for Verizon. I don't see the need for a ATS in this situation legal or not.
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ActionDave said:
Did you pass or fail them?
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elohr46 said:
Pass.
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Very good. I have worked on cell sites where an ATS was installed with no generator.

I think the rationale was that each site would have the same setup so if it was decided a genny was needed it could be done easily. It may also have been the corporate mindset that everything gets the same specs no matter the application.
 
ActionDave said:
Very good. I have worked on cell sites where an ATS was installed with no generator.

I think the rationale was that each site would have the same setup so if it was decided a genny was needed it could be done easily. It may also have been the corporate mindset that everything gets the same specs no matter the application.
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I have seen them at Cell Tower sites as well but they differ in the fact that at the Cell site they are located at the service and feeding the entire site. With Verizon they are connected to a sub panel feeding specific equipment.
 
elohr46 said:
I have seen them at Cell Tower sites as well but they differ in the fact that at the Cell site they are located at the service and feeding the entire site. With Verizon they are connected to a sub panel feeding specific equipment.
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Not all of Verizon's sites are like that though, Verizon bought Pactel a number of years ago, Pactel was using a 200 amp transfer switch with an 8 KW generator, load shedding the redundant A/C unit. We installed one at a site that was so remote that they hauled the propane in grill size propane bottles, ganging them together on a rack.
 
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