Besoeker, Thank you for confirming!
We do not get charged for a Leading PF. Which is why I am leaning toward Fixed banks and putting Caps on the Load side of the Chillers Starters for cost reasons.
Automatic Cap Banks
- Thread starter raiderUM
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Besoeker, Thank you for confirming!
We do not get charged for a Leading PF. Which is why I am leaning toward Fixed banks and putting Caps on the Load side of the Chillers Starters for cost reasons.
Phil Corso
Senior Member
- Location
- Boca Raton, Fl, USA
Besoeker...
Since I was not present for the FAT, my interpretation of ASEA's Official Documentation follows:
1) The four values you identified are not all No-load current values. There tw columns listg raeadins of two ammeters; one # 358, the other #359.
2) Each column is split into two lists. I know that the RH list are no-load amperes. I do not know what the LH values represent!
3) The data was also plotted No-Load Amp vs Applied Voltage curve!
Mivey...
Would like me to forward Pg 1of6 that I sent to Boesoeker, to you? Or would you to want all 6 pages?
Regards, Phil Corso
Since I was not present for the FAT, my interpretation of ASEA's Official Documentation follows:
1) The four values you identified are not all No-load current values. There tw columns listg raeadins of two ammeters; one # 358, the other #359.
2) Each column is split into two lists. I know that the RH list are no-load amperes. I do not know what the LH values represent!
3) The data was also plotted No-Load Amp vs Applied Voltage curve!
Mivey...
Would like me to forward Pg 1of6 that I sent to Boesoeker, to you? Or would you to want all 6 pages?
Regards, Phil Corso
Well you see, I'd kinda sussed that out for myself from dates and ages and the application of not too complicated arithmetic.
Then why are all four listed in the columns clearly entitled "No load curve"?
And under Pri Amps 1 and Pri Amps 2?
So you ignored it?
Seems there's quite a bit of interpretation going on here. Is there a diagram of the test set up by any chance?
How about posting that curve here?
Or even the whole FAT document......you can attach files here.
See post #101.
Very welcome, sir.
Leading power factor can lead to an undesirable voltage rise which is why it is generally avoided.
Phil Corso
Senior Member
- Location
- Boca Raton, Fl, USA
Beseoker...
No! I wasn't there for the FAT. But I was there later for an investgation related to a vibration problem that arose during the FAT! The Way-Higher-Ups concluded it could have a serious impact on delivery to construction site!
(Details available if anyone wants them!)
Seems like you misundersood my attempt at humor when I gave my age as 62 in June (this year) and then 63 in May (this year)!
Don't worry! I find it "typical" of many professional. Regards, Phil :happysad:
No! I wasn't there for the FAT. But I was there later for an investgation related to a vibration problem that arose during the FAT! The Way-Higher-Ups concluded it could have a serious impact on delivery to construction site!
(Details available if anyone wants them!)
Seems like you misundersood my attempt at humor when I gave my age as 62 in June (this year) and then 63 in May (this year)!
Don't worry! I find it "typical" of many professional. Regards, Phil :happysad:
And you seem to have missed my attempt at humour in my previous post.
As I have comment a few times here and elsewhere, my wit was wasted.
Shall we get back on topic now.
Can you post the curve you alluded to, please?
mivey
Senior Member
For the voltages and currents, the LH values are the values as read and the RH values are after the meter multiplier.
mivey
Senior Member
It is the same data as the listed values so yields no additional info.
mivey
Senior Member
That would be great if you wouldn't mind.
If there is not a size correlation do you think there might be a voltage correlation?
Right on the dot! Just be sure about your units.
BTW, I understand you based your calcs on historical data. Please see if nothing gets to be added/ removed in your facility so you can present options to your bosses. They'd be happy it's for them to decide not you pushing. Been there, done that. Know how bosses think and you'll get what you propose!
T
T.M.Haja Sahib
Guest
I am sorry to state that your decision is bound to prove wrong.
Here is why.
There is a thrust towards energy conservation everywhere throughout the world. If your administrators are lured by savings from energy conservation measures, they may very well take a decision to adopt them. In that case, VFD's, among most efficient energy conservation means may replace the existing conventional starters for the chillers and with that the capacitors fixed on the motor side should be shifted to the line side and upstream to the VFD's. So it may be cost effective if you place the capacitors in the line side to the chiller NOW.
So we have no explanation of what the four no-load values are. Without that, I don't see how any firm conclusions can't be drawn.
Phil Corso
Senior Member
- Location
- Boca Raton, Fl, USA
Besoeker...
Sorry the ASEA info was of no use to you in your "quest" to prove there is a "Typical" NLA ve FNL ratio!
Phil
Sorry the ASEA info was of no use to you in your "quest" to prove there is a "Typical" NLA ve FNL ratio!
Phil
mivey
Senior Member
There aren't four currents but rather two currents for each voltage level tested. There are two columns with two values in each. In each column, the left value is the displayed reading from the meter and the right value is the actual value after applying the meter multiplier. The plot of I0 appears to be the average of the two columns. Thus, the I0=136A value Phil gave is the same as the plot.
Cap Banks
Cap Banks
There are special controllers and contactors designed specifically for this application.
You should consider using these in lieu of the BMS, it will be easier and cheaper.
Are your caps overhead on poles or ground mounted in cabinets?
Who is the manufacturer?
Cap Banks
There are special controllers and contactors designed specifically for this application.
You should consider using these in lieu of the BMS, it will be easier and cheaper.
Are your caps overhead on poles or ground mounted in cabinets?
Who is the manufacturer?
Ground mounted next to the secondary gear. The manufacturer is General Electric and I would say they were installed in the 70's early 80's
Nothing to prove.
I posted data on several machines much more in line with the power rating of the original motor than your rather aged 11400 kW behemoth.
And you still haven't explained what was measured or how.
A diagram of the test set up would go a long way to resolving that.
But, no worries.
But plot of what? Why even two columns if they are derived values?
It looks like the two watt-meter method was used to derive power.
And even if you accept that they are no load currents, it still isn't 15% even for this machine which is vastly bigger than that initially referred to.
But, if he wants to go out on a limb to attempt to disprove the typical 30% I've seen in dozens if not hundreds of motors with one atypical forty some year old motor, then fine.
Phil Corso
Senior Member
- Location
- Boca Raton, Fl, USA
Besoeker...
The test was carried out some 44 years ago. The mfg was ASEA, the Swedish partner, with Switzerland's Brown-Bovari, in one of the bost respected Electrical Apparatus Companies, ABB!
Why do you insist the data to calculate the NLA/FLA ratio is questionable, thus unbelivable, hence atypical.
In closing, you are the "typical" PtP engineer... "You catch mice and let elephants go free"! I strongly suggest, if you want additional detail, contact ABB!
Phil
The test was carried out some 44 years ago. The mfg was ASEA, the Swedish partner, with Switzerland's Brown-Bovari, in one of the bost respected Electrical Apparatus Companies, ABB!
Why do you insist the data to calculate the NLA/FLA ratio is questionable, thus unbelivable, hence atypical.
In closing, you are the "typical" PtP engineer... "You catch mice and let elephants go free"! I strongly suggest, if you want additional detail, contact ABB!
Phil
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