Automatically starting a dust collector

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The KSPD has delay on both make and break.

http://library.abb.com/global/scot/scot260.nsf/veritydisplay/58013a2067c1f7bf8525709e006f5428/$File/KSPDGen.pdf
 
conmgt said:
It's all 240 on this job; coils,relays. After I switch the service from
2ph 4 wire to 3ph, it'l be 208.
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You do not have 2phase 4wire, unless this is an extremely old woodshop with an archaic voltage system. I am pretty sure you mean that you have a 120/1240 1phase 3wire service that you are changing to 208Y/120 3Ph 4W.

You can get a current switch RIBXGHA (the manufacturer of RIB products is Functional Devices) that can handle 120VAC.

I did not recommend a PLC, I said to use a "smart or programmable relay". These can easily handle your timing functions for about $200. I have used the Zelio SR family from Square D, but you can get something similar from others, like Siemens, AB, and GE.
 
Cut me a break. I didn't just ride up the Delaware River on a bicycle :) It is an extremely old woodshop with an archaic voltage system. It is 2ph 4wire (hots that is) plus a neutral...ok...5wire (my bad). Two phase was in Philly for a long time. A,B,C, or D to neutral is 120. A to B is 240. C to D is 240. A or B to C or D is 175. Want pics?
 
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conmgt said:
Cut me a break. I didn't just ride up the Delaware River on a bicycle :) It is an extremely old woodshop with an archaic voltage system. It is 2ph 4wire (hots that is) plus a neutral...ok...5wire (my bad). Two phase was in Philly for a long time. A,B,C, or D to neutral is 120. A to B is 240. C to D is 240. A or B to C or D is 175. Want pics?
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Hey, congratulations.:D

I believe you are the first person to post here that has actually worked on a still operating 2-phase system.:cool::cool:
 
conmgt said:
Cut me a break. I didn't just ride up the Delaware River on a bicycle :) It is an extremely old woodshop with an archaic voltage system. It is 2ph 4wire (hots that is) plus a neutral...ok...5wire (my bad). Two phase was in Philly for a long time. A,B,C, or D to neutral is 120. A to B is 240. C to D is 240. A or B to C or D is 175. Want pics?
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5 wire? I want pics or diagrams or something please. This would be news to me. :)
 
conmgt said:
It is 2ph 4wire (hots that is) plus a neutral...ok...5wire (my bad). Two phase was in Philly for a long time. A,B,C, or D to neutral is 120. A to B is 240. C to D is 240. A or B to C or D is 175.
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Are all of your loads connected as 240V AB or CD?

While it is possible to measure voltage across the phases (i.e. AC or BD), I am not aware of that being a usable voltage (just like the 208V in a 240V high leg system)
 
conmgt said:
My contact info:----------
j. dungar, I'll google RIB. PLC sounds pricy, ProgramaCubes are about $70 each, but I'll goggle that too.

http://library.abb.com/global/scot/scot260.nsf/veritydisplay/58013a2067c1f7bf8525709e006f5428/$File/KSPDGen.pdf
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You can buy a PLC for 70 dollars.
 
steelersman said:
anyone have any diagrams of how this is wired at the transformer? I've never heard of this and am quite shocked.
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The midpoint of the two phase windings of the transformer are wired like a plus sign +. One phase, say A-B, goes top to bottom and the other phase C-D, goes left to right.
 
As mentioned thanks for the 2? pics. Many have heard, few have seen.

I'd think the SJO is ok, this equipment needs to move right?

Under 30amps? Plug/Recep = Disconnect.
Motor protection is questionable to me, if you are controlling a recep and the devices are factory cord connected? (Someone prove me wrong here?)

I'd suggest a current sensor also. This would save a wiring mess on what is probably a dusty, busy floor space. Definitely how I'd do it.

I'd put the mess in a hinged cover, dust tight box of sorts and have one good sized box to work out of. NOT messing around with RIBS and 10lb of you no what in a 5lb bucket. Also, I'd probably keep it simple and avoid the PLC, yea it's cheaper, but is it easier ( for you ) to trouble shoot?

Have fun,
Doug S.
 
j. dungar,
The building has subpanels with just AB or just CD phases in it for general lighting and recept loads. Panels for motors have all 4. The building was originally owned by Norton Abrasives (Home Depot's sandpaper and grinder wheels) and had some serious machinery going on. None of it was here when I bought the building but there were at least 2 doz. 4 pole panels on the walls. Actually one machine was left behind, a 1940's Ingersoll Rand single cylinder air compressor with a 2 phase 15hp motor and it still runs but I don't use it. Also, the elevator motor is original and works great. For 3ph motors I have 2 static phase changers. A and B pass right through to the motors but CD are combined to make the 3rd leg. I'll see if I have any more pics to share.
 
Doug S. said:
I'd think the SJO is ok, this equipment needs to move right?

I'd suggest a current sensor also. This would save a wiring mess on what is probably a dusty, busy floor space. Definitely how I'd do it.
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My thoughts exactly on the SJO but with a current sensor the point is now moot because there won't be a need for any wiring between the saw and collector...the circuits for both are in the same conduit and terminate within a foot of each other. When I finish the project, I'll post photos, details, and cost.
CR Magnetics has current sensors with Delay on Make timers built in.
 
conmgt said:
j. dungar,
The building has subpanels with just AB or just CD phases in it for general lighting and recept loads. Panels for motors have all 4. The building was originally owned by Norton Abrasives (Home Depot's sandpaper and grinder wheels) and had some serious machinery going on. None of it was here when I bought the building but there were at least 2 doz. 4 pole panels on the walls. Actually one machine was left behind, a 1940's Ingersoll Rand single cylinder air compressor with a 2 phase 15hp motor and it still runs but I don't use it. Also, the elevator motor is original and works great. For 3ph motors I have 2 static phase changers. A and B pass right through to the motors but CD are combined to make the 3rd leg. I'll see if I have any more pics to share.
Click to expand...
My understanding of 2 phase systems, is that the 5th wire (the common to both phases) was could carry up to 1.4 times the current in the phase conductors, although in a 3-wire circuit it behaved like a traditional neutral.

The SCOTT transformer connection utilizes two transformers connected in a tee arrangement to convert 2-phase into 3-phase
 
conmgt said:
j. dungar,
The building has subpanels with just AB or just CD phases in it for general lighting and recept loads. Panels for motors have all 4. The building was originally owned by Norton Abrasives (Home Depot's sandpaper and grinder wheels) and had some serious machinery going on. None of it was here when I bought the building but there were at least 2 doz. 4 pole panels on the walls. Actually one machine was left behind, a 1940's Ingersoll Rand single cylinder air compressor with a 2 phase 15hp motor and it still runs but I don't use it. Also, the elevator motor is original and works great. For 3ph motors I have 2 static phase changers. A and B pass right through to the motors but CD are combined to make the 3rd leg. I'll see if I have any more pics to share.
Click to expand...
wow, I have a hard enough time understanding basic transformers and now I'm finding out that there is a whole other animal that just makes it even more confusing to me now. :)
 
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