automotive ignition voltage
- Thread starter Natfuelbilll
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zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Sort of, but that is a little misleading also. The first issue here is justification (130.1 (A)). If you pass that section then you need to look at note 1 in table 130.2(C) that refers you to the definition (Does not clear much up) and annex C, C.1.2.4. While the annexes are not part of the requirements they are for informational purposes to explain just this type of grey area. That section says to cross the PAB the qualified person must do the following:
1. Have specified training to work on energized conductors or circuit parts (This is the key here, the company needs to have this special training documented, I have only seen utilities go this far, this training is over and above your basic safety training)
2. Have a documented plan justifying the need to work that close (EEWP)
3. Perform a risk analysis
4. Have the plan and the risk analysis approved by authorized management
5. Use PPE that is appropriate for working on exposed energized conductors or circuit parts...
Also look at C.1.2.3 (3) for RAB, "Be sure no part of the body enters the prohibited space"
Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
It turns out that using an automotive ignition system was not the best choice for this discussion (See 70E Scope(B)(1)).
A better example would be the spark plug wires on an emergency generator engine.
Let's see...
Let the task be to place an inductive spark plug meter/tester on a running engine.
Wires are not insulated, they are "covered" see NEC 70 article 100.
Covered wires need to be treated as "bare"
So now I have an exposed, energized electrical conductor.
So to determine the approach boundary we need to determine the "Nominal System Voltage Range Phase to Phase"
Where would the coil and ignition voltage be listed in 70E TABLE 130.2(C)?
Perhaps the key word here is "system". It could be argued that this DC coil voltage is not a system in any sense of the 70 or 70E. In fact, the only DC that is specifically mentioned is in 70E article 320 Batteries.
The spark plug wires don't fit the definition of utilization equipment or equipment found in the NEC or NFPA 79.
Are these engine spark plug wires part of NEC 670? No, because the wires are not connected to the power supply circuit of the premise wiring system.
Are these engine spark plug wires covered under NFPA 79? I don't think so.
NFPA 79 - Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery
Scope
The provisions of this standard shall apply to the electrical/electronic equipment, apparatus, or systems of industrial machines operating from a nominal voltage of 600 volts or less, and commencing at the point of connection of the supply to the electrical equipment of the machine.
As previously mentioned OSHA may lump this voltage in with
"1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing ... is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. ....
Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment."
A better example would be the spark plug wires on an emergency generator engine.
Let's see...
Let the task be to place an inductive spark plug meter/tester on a running engine.
Wires are not insulated, they are "covered" see NEC 70 article 100.
Covered wires need to be treated as "bare"
So now I have an exposed, energized electrical conductor.
So to determine the approach boundary we need to determine the "Nominal System Voltage Range Phase to Phase"
Where would the coil and ignition voltage be listed in 70E TABLE 130.2(C)?
Perhaps the key word here is "system". It could be argued that this DC coil voltage is not a system in any sense of the 70 or 70E. In fact, the only DC that is specifically mentioned is in 70E article 320 Batteries.
The spark plug wires don't fit the definition of utilization equipment or equipment found in the NEC or NFPA 79.
Are these engine spark plug wires part of NEC 670? No, because the wires are not connected to the power supply circuit of the premise wiring system.
Are these engine spark plug wires covered under NFPA 79? I don't think so.
NFPA 79 - Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery
Scope
The provisions of this standard shall apply to the electrical/electronic equipment, apparatus, or systems of industrial machines operating from a nominal voltage of 600 volts or less, and commencing at the point of connection of the supply to the electrical equipment of the machine.
As previously mentioned OSHA may lump this voltage in with
"1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing ... is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. ....
Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment."
Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
Should have said (See 70E Scope 90.2 (B)(1)).
G0049
Senior Member
- Location
- Ludington, MI
Actually, the OSHA regs specifically exclude, among other things, "Installations in vehicles. Installations in ships, watercraft, railway rolling stock, aircraft or automotive vehicles other than mobile homes and recreational vehicles." See 1910.331(c). OSHA regs are just like the NEC, the rule may look good, but you have to check to see where it applys.
Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
yup, and that is why I started the generator ignition post
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