- Location
- Massachusetts
Fine, lets use 'the average' can you tell me which average? :grin:
Average day time high for the year?
Average night time high?
Saying 'average' means nothing without some perimeters.
Average Ambient Temp
- Thread starter schole
- Start date
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Fine, lets use 'the average' can you tell me which average? :grin:
Average day time high for the year?
Average night time high?
Saying 'average' means nothing without some perimeters.
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Came across this ROP for the proposal on rooftop derating. It's not all relative so I deleted the body of it but check out the comments... It seems at least a couple of guys on the panel were worried inspectors would see it the way you do iwire
6-51 Log #3150 NEC-P06
Final Action: Accept in Principle
(
Comment on Affirmative:
_______________
KENT, G.: I agree with this proposal, but feel it necessary to point out
averaging was used for the ambient temperature in the study. The Code should
reference this averaging to keep inspectors/local jurisdictions from using the
hottest day on record as the temperature to begin a de-rating factor from.
LAIDLER, W.: I agree with the panel?s action to accept this proposal in part
based on the technical substantiation provided by the submitter. The panel
should have added language that would give guidance to how the maximum
outside ambient temperature should be determined. An AHJ could take the
maximum temperature of the hottest day of the year for that location and
require that 30?F be added to that temperature to arrive at the temperature in
which the correction factors in Tables 310.16 and 310.18 would be applied. I
do not believe that the submitter intended that a maximum instantaneous value
be used when applying this new section. It was stated in the submitter?s
substantiation that an average or median temperature value was used in
experiments to avoid using extreme temperatures. A FPN could be added along
with this new section making reference to several different ways that could be
used in determining the maximum average temperature for a specific location.
ZIMNOCH, J.: The submitter should submit a listing of temperatures for
various cities.
averaging was used for the ambient temperature in the study. The Code should
reference this averaging to keep inspectors/local jurisdictions from using the
hottest day on record as the temperature to begin a de-rating factor from.
LAIDLER, W.: I agree with the panel?s action to accept this proposal in part
based on the technical substantiation provided by the submitter. The panel
should have added language that would give guidance to how the maximum
outside ambient temperature should be determined. An AHJ could take the
maximum temperature of the hottest day of the year for that location and
require that 30?F be added to that temperature to arrive at the temperature in
which the correction factors in Tables 310.16 and 310.18 would be applied. I
do not believe that the submitter intended that a maximum instantaneous value
be used when applying this new section. It was stated in the submitter?s
substantiation that an average or median temperature value was used in
experiments to avoid using extreme temperatures. A FPN could be added along
with this new section making reference to several different ways that could be
used in determining the maximum average temperature for a specific location.
ZIMNOCH, J.: The submitter should submit a listing of temperatures for
various cities.
_______________
Another source is http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/r3d/ushcn/ushcn_r3.html but it only provides averages per year.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Well considering they are not giving any guidance in the NEC at all I say of course an AHJ can see it many ways.
Again .......... I have no real problem saying lets use the average, but tell me what method we are using to determine the average.
The average temperature in NH for any day in July is shown in the 60F range.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I left out limitless possibilities.
Yeah, thanks Mom, nothing I like better then being reminded my spelling is poor, do you feel superior now?
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
I get your point and it should be defined....
However my GUESS is that the intent is not to use the maximum temp ever recorded.... just my guess.... and guessing intent is all I have since the code is silent...
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
How funny to watch people correct other forum members on the grammer...
BTW your critisizing statement is not a proper sentence and has no punctuation....
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- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Be careful with the "grammar" discussions.
It is easy to cross into the world of personal attacks.
It is easy to cross into the world of personal attacks.
I was not correcting grammar, I was pointing out he used the wrong word, which entirely changed the meaning he was trying to get across.
It is only a criticizing statement if it contains a criticism. I did not criticize. I pointed out an error. Only someone unwilling to learn or be corrected takes criticism in that. People attempt to correct me all the time. I don't take offense in that. However, I will take offense if they do it in a condescending manner, which I do not believe I did.
The mere fact my statement started with an ellipsis (which BTW is punctuation, not to mention the quotation marks) means it is not a complete sentence nor does it require ending punctuation.
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Yes you did, but I felt that was one of the most pertinent ones :grin:
Your welcome, Sonny.
Actually the word you used was spelled correctly. It was just the wrong word.
Nope, not at all. I am far from being that vain....do you feel superior now?
I apologize if you took offense... but be it known, none was intended.
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
It is not that I am unwilling to learn... This forum is like an informal discussion amongst friends. No one here is trying to wax eloquent and ensure good spelling...if you are going to be the grammer police your (yeah it should be you're but I'm not too worried...)going to have to keep pretty busy...
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
I am taking a solar instal certification course right now and we use temp/city/location tables all the time for wire adjustments. I just dont have an answer for you where those tables are from other than my textbook. I will try to get back by tommorow night with an answer.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
............
So are you saying you've never corrected a friend of yours? ...or a family member?
I have no intention of being a policeman of any sort. If I did, I would have corrected your spelling of grammar in your last two posts... guess I sorta just did that, but only to make a point :smile:
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Touche.
Actually I am always correcting my poor wife (christian school education:roll:......) and it drives her nuts....
Anyway all is cool. I just am real relaxed on this thread and I certainly wouldn't harp on anyone elses grammar and wouldn't want it done to me.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Seeing as I popped off last night I will address this.
I spelled it wrong, spell check corrected it to the wrong word.
Apparently the meaning was still clear enough as you knew what I wanted to say.
I am not unwilling to learn how to spell, I just have not been able to learn how to, I am 45 now and I don't see that changing.
Do you like to be corrected boldly in a crowed room or would you rather a more private correction?
It's cool, thanks for the apology. :smile:
Be it known I am kinda sensitive about my lack of spelling skills so if you don't mind just ignore it, or send me a PM if I make an error that is keeping you up at night. :grin:
I spelled it wrong, spell check corrected it to the wrong word.
Apparently the meaning was still clear enough as you knew what I wanted to say.
I am not unwilling to learn how to spell, I just have not been able to learn how to, I am 45 now and I don't see that changing.
Do you like to be corrected boldly in a crowed room or would you rather a more private correction?
It's cool, thanks for the apology. :smile:
Be it known I am kinda sensitive about my lack of spelling skills so if you don't mind just ignore it, or send me a PM if I make an error that is keeping you up at night. :grin:
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M. D.
Senior Member
You Know,.. when my daughter was in the third grade she could spell better than me,.. I would say to my wife ,.How does she know the E comes after the L in a word like handle ,.. something which I, regardless the fact that I have written that word a million times ,..am never quite sure of ... spelled it wrong in this post in fact.
IMO being able to spell well is a gift .. like it is for those who excel at math ..
IMO being able to spell well is a gift .. like it is for those who excel at math ..
- Location
- Massachusetts
Really OT here but the human mind amazes me. I can remember circuits I ran years ago but I can not seem to remember when to use 'then' or 'than'. I can remember what code section requires the switching device for a ballasted fixture to break all ungrounded conductors but I can not remember someones name I meet minutes ago. :-?
I sometimes feel like 'Rainman' I am very bright in some areas and an idiot in other areas.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Don't be so hard on yourself although you do seem like the type of guy who would park a vehicle on the street and spend 45 minutes looking for it. :grin: BTW, your last few posts had no spelling errors.
Back to the topic--- Does anyone know if this ambient temp. thing has ever been brought up as a ROP and what happened to it if it had? I would be curious.
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