I?m looking for some advice on pulling wire for an underground service, specifically 3 600 kcmil THHN conductors through approx. 100? of 3? PVC. I know, I should have oversized the pipe for starters but I didn?t. I have no experience using any kind of tugger. I have about 8? of exposed scl 80 strapped to pole. Wondering if some type of pulley fasted high on pole would do the job and ,if so, where can I get an appropriate pulley. Any suggestions to protect my groin are appreciated. Thanks.
Back Breaking Pull?
- Thread starter ddcawley
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Rent a puller, or sub it out.
Rent a puller, or sub it out.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
3 600s in 3" 80 will be tight.
How many bends, are they standard radius?
Are the bends PVC or metal?
What is the insulation type?
3 600s in 3" 80 will be tight.
How many bends, are they standard radius?
Are the bends PVC or metal?
What is the insulation type?
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Sunbelt rents tuggers and I think pulleys. You really should get a tugger (Greenlee is the way to go). They are not difficult to use. If you know someone that has used one, get them to come help you.
A tugger won't help with the 8' though, you will still have to do something there. If you use a pulley, then you will have to secure the tugger somewhere too. The feeding is very important because you can't afford to let your wires cross over. The tugger can damage your pipe if you are not paying attention. The rope is important. Make sure you get one rated for the job(probably a 1"). Sunbelt has those too.
Good luck, let us know how/what you did.
Sunbelt rents tuggers and I think pulleys. You really should get a tugger (Greenlee is the way to go). They are not difficult to use. If you know someone that has used one, get them to come help you.
A tugger won't help with the 8' though, you will still have to do something there. If you use a pulley, then you will have to secure the tugger somewhere too. The feeding is very important because you can't afford to let your wires cross over. The tugger can damage your pipe if you are not paying attention. The rope is important. Make sure you get one rated for the job(probably a 1"). Sunbelt has those too.
Good luck, let us know how/what you did.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Hope you have atleast 4 men.Perhaps pull wire without that 8 foot first.Then slide the shed 80 over it.
Hope you have atleast 4 men.Perhaps pull wire without that 8 foot first.Then slide the shed 80 over it.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Jim,
Don
Jim,
That would be a code violation. See 300.18.
Don
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
That would be a code violation. See 300.18
I don't think 300.18 applies to the wire sleeved up a pole with nothing at the top of the conduit.
-Hal
That would be a code violation. See 300.18
I don't think 300.18 applies to the wire sleeved up a pole with nothing at the top of the conduit.
-Hal
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
[/QUOTE]That would be a code violation. See 300.18.
Don [/QB][/QUOTE]
I'm with you, Hal, on this one. Note 310.18 "where required to facilitate......." also this is permitted by the exception.
Also some times it is important to look at the reason for some of these sections. The reason we install only in finished systems is because of the greater chance of damaging insulation etc., if installing raceways over conductors. In this case the greater hazard could be trying to pull through this extension, hence the exception.
___________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas technical College
Goodland, KS
[/QUOTE]That would be a code violation. See 300.18.
Don [/QB][/QUOTE]
I'm with you, Hal, on this one. Note 310.18 "where required to facilitate......." also this is permitted by the exception.
Also some times it is important to look at the reason for some of these sections. The reason we install only in finished systems is because of the greater chance of damaging insulation etc., if installing raceways over conductors. In this case the greater hazard could be trying to pull through this extension, hence the exception.
___________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas technical College
Goodland, KS
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
In my opinion the code intent is that the conduit be complete between pull points. The reason is to prevent the damage that can occur when you slide conduit over the wire. I don't see how the exception applies to this installation.
Don
In my opinion the code intent is that the conduit be complete between pull points. The reason is to prevent the damage that can occur when you slide conduit over the wire. I don't see how the exception applies to this installation.
Don
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Wes,
I don't see that as a "short section of raceway". It is a part of a complete raceway system and the exception does not apply to complete raceway systems. It applies where you are using a short section of raceway to provide protection for the cable, such as required by 334.15(B).
Don
Wes,
I don't see that as a "short section of raceway". It is a part of a complete raceway system and the exception does not apply to complete raceway systems. It applies where you are using a short section of raceway to provide protection for the cable, such as required by 334.15(B).
Don
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
I think the pull will go far better and actually do less damage.What would be so hard about standing on a 12 foot ladder and slipt the shed 80 over it.Piece of cake.Why make the pull any harder than it need be or cost your self extra money for equipment.Can i watch you feed this from on top of an 8 foot ladder ?
I think the pull will go far better and actually do less damage.What would be so hard about standing on a 12 foot ladder and slipt the shed 80 over it.Piece of cake.Why make the pull any harder than it need be or cost your self extra money for equipment.Can i watch you
feed this from on top of an 8 foot ladder ?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Jim,
Don
Jim,
I wouldn't have to do that...we have the correct equipment to do that type of work.
Don
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Yes its nice to have the equipment.The company i am with has that $8,000 greenlee tuger so life is easy.But for a guy that has nothing and seldom does this i think my solution would make his life easier.Getting creative on wire pulls never hurt anyone.
Yes its nice to have the equipment.The company i am with has that $8,000 greenlee tuger so life is easy.But for a guy that has nothing and seldom does this i think my solution would make his life easier.Getting creative on wire pulls never hurt anyone.
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
If that 8' section were removed and added after the main pull, it would indeed be a "short section".
___________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas technical College
Goodland, KS
Don, I don't believe 334.15 would be the applicable code for this situation either! Instead try 230.32.(2002 code. I don't have my 2005 here at home) This refers you to 300.5. 30.5(1) says that these service conductors do not have to be in a complete raceway system and as such,I believe, would be exactly what the exception refers to.
If that 8' section were removed and added after the main pull, it would indeed be a "short section".
___________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas technical College
Goodland, KS
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
I think you guys are nuts if you think sliding a stick of 3" schedule 80 over a set of vertical 600s will be easer than pulling it properly.
If I had to do this without a puller I would have a sheave up in the pole and another one at the bottom of the pole redirecting the pull sideways at the base of the pole. You do not want to be pulling sideways 12' up a pole.
Trucks particularly automatics, move to quick I would be thinking tractor. (a 30 pack of beer to the excavation contractor works wonders )
This of course assumes a good rope and sweeps that can take the force of the rope without cutting.
I think you guys are nuts if you think sliding a stick of 3" schedule 80 over a set of vertical 600s will be easer than pulling it properly.
If I had to do this without a puller I would have a sheave up in the pole and another one at the bottom of the pole redirecting the pull sideways at the base of the pole. You do not want to be pulling sideways 12' up a pole.
Trucks particularly automatics, move to quick I would be thinking tractor. (a 30 pack of beer to the excavation contractor works wonders
)This of course assumes a good rope and sweeps that can take the force of the rope without cutting.
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
Originally posted by iwire:
I think you guys are nuts if you think sliding a stick of 3" schedule 80 over a set of vertical 600s will be easer than pulling it properly.
I would be thinking tractor. (a 30 pack of beer to the excavation contractor works wonders
On the other point, I know 600kcm is stiff, but so stiff that it wouldn't be bent to the ground if over 8' of it were sticking into the air?
___________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas technical College
Goodland, KS
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
The problem I see Wes is keeping the 600s in a perfect triangle as you slide the raceway over it.
Three 600s in 3" 80 is a snug fit and a 'cross' will be a jam.
The problem I see Wes is keeping the 600s in a perfect triangle as you slide the raceway over it.
Three 600s in 3" 80 is a snug fit and a 'cross' will be a jam.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Back Breaking Pull?
And I could see this happening even with a compleat raceway system, Keeping up with a tugger is hard enough, but to keep them from crossing over.
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