Back-stabbing devices

Back-stabbing devices

  • I back-stab because it?s my choice to.

    Votes: 15 13.2%

  • I back-stab, but I?d rather not. The person signing my paycheck says to.

    Votes: 3 2.6%

  • I back-stab on occasion.

    Votes: 21 18.4%

  • I don?t back-stab. Period. And it's my choice not to.

    Votes: 73 64.0%

  • I don?t back-stab because the boss tells me so.

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Total voters
    114
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I do it because there is no reason not to.


(That oughta get the ball rolling here for ya Sparky :D)
 
aluminum conductor days?

aluminum conductor days?

Hey Celtic, Do you believe so many of us are terrified about bac -stabs because a lot of us remember the days of aluminum branch circuit conductors. And the problems then. And the problem was with the aluminum wire being weak, not the method of back stabbing?
 
I pretty much check every device I stab with a little pull or an aquired feel, but even though I am a little leary, I will continue to do so until I run into consistent problems, (Hopefully none of the fire variety. :grin: ) I seem to remember a post not too long ago of a toasted outlet and wall that had its wires hooked, not stabbed. Neither method is a guarntee. IMO.
 
Sometimes i backstab if im really in the shi@, but i try to keep it to a not commonly used outlet. But i remember this one dude I used to work with and he freaked out on me because I backstabed ,telling me that basically the house was going to incinerate because of that. So then i asked him why do they have them there.? I know alot of electritians that say they never back stab but I have seen their work at times and they did it. Sometimes its hard to resist. Its 0 degrees out and its colder in the building than it is outside. The holes call out to you "just stick it in" and you ll finish faster.
But now on the other hand now that I and starting my own business it doesn't seem like a good idea any more no matter how busy I am. It only takes seconds longer to do it right. Ive pulled out plenty of outlets that gave up its wires just by pulling it away from the box. So I guess the moral is just do it the right way.
But Celtic does make a good point, If its good for the manufacturer than its good for you.
 
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ItsHot said:
Hey Celtic, Do you believe so many of us are terrified about bac -stabs because a lot of us remember the days of aluminum branch circuit conductors. And the problems then. And the problem was with the aluminum wire being weak, not the method of back stabbing?
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Could be one reason Hot.

Another might be that some guys never saw the benefit of back-stabbing.

Others may have an inherent fear of back-stabbing - with or without justification.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for the disdain towards backstabbing...I'm sure we'll here more :D
 
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celtic said:
I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for the didain towards backstabbing...I'm sure we'll here more :D
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I started doing them when they had the 12/14 combo backstabs, and they just seemed too loose and wobbly to me. I tried it a couple times, but didn't like it. I never inhaled.:D

Maybe, today they are better with the #14 only, but.... I just think they are "icky":smile:
 
ItsHot said:
Hey Celtic, Do you believe so many of us are terrified about bac -stabs because a lot of us remember the days of aluminum branch circuit conductors. And the problems then. And the problem was with the aluminum wire being weak, not the method of back stabbing?
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Of all of the stabbed-receptacle trouble-shooting calls I've done, and there have been many, only one was with aluminum conductors. Aluminum has its problems aplenty without the help of having been stabbed.

Many moons ago, I went on a T/S call for a dead bedroom addition. Someone fed the entire new bedroom from an existing receptacle, at the end of the line, fed with #12 aluminum. The original receptacle was blackened, as was the wall above it.

When we opened the wall above the scorched receptacle, the aluminum conductors were completely bare for about two feet above the receptacle box. They were shiny and bright, and there was absolutely no sign of insulation or sheath, as if it had evaporated.

The incredible thing was that the three conductors were perfectly paralleled as if the cable was still intact, but invisible, and that there was no sign of arcing or fire. It mad one thing clear: wire temperature limitation is based on the insulation, not the conductor.

360Youth said:
I pretty much check every device I stab with a little pull or an aquired feel . . .
I seem to remember a post not too long ago of a toasted outlet and wall that had its wires hooked, not stabbed. Neither method is a guarntee. IMO.
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True enough, but the problem with stabbed terminations appears after years of adequate conductivity, first with intermittent contact, and then finally no power. Heat causes the spring metal to lose its springiness, which causes more heat, and it snowballs. But, it takes time, sometimes over 20 years.

Just last week, we had a service call for a master bedroom and bathroom half of the upstairs, and found it in the hall receptacle. Pulled out the receptacle and one conductor stayed in position as if the receptacle was still there. Happens every time.

tonyou812 said:
I know alot of electritians that say they never back stab but I have seen their work at times and they did it.
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I don't, and I'll jump all over any of my guys who do it. Now, give me back-wired clamping terminals, like most GFCI receptacles have, and I'll use those all day long. Plus, many of them accept two conductors per screw, great for split-wired circuits.

celtic said:
Icky: Aye
Fast: Aye
Approved: Aye

The Ayes have it.
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Ai-yi-yi! :wink:
 
I don't have "fear" of backstabbed devices like some people do. I just have never done it that way. I tend to stick to methods that I am used to in cases like this. if you want to do it go right ahead it is perfectly.

On a side note some devices have backwire pressure plates. Have you ever checked those connnections after you have terminated the wires and moved them around to set them into a box. They are almost always loose and require retightening. This to me is a problem.

I'm speaking of GFCI's in this case because that is the type of backwired device I use most.
 
I have in the past back-stabbed a device or two. Then they back-stabbed me back with a service call or a chewin' out by the boss. No more.
 
I believe finding that one failed connection on a call is worth it. I can put in two outlets before you have the wires hooked on the screws nd have the third in by the time your done. I'll be counting money while you're putting plates on. I have seen loose connections in wirenuts 1000 times more than outlets
 
Just last week, we had a service call for a master bedroom and bathroom half of the upstairs, and found it in the hall receptacle. Pulled out the receptacle and one conductor stayed in position as if the receptacle was still there. Happens every time.

Funny, not me. I see this on spec grade devices with the screw down pressure plate. Those are silly!
 
dSilanskas said:
I used to backstab a conductor if I already had two wires on the screws but now the AHJ wont let us do that anymore I guess its against code?
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Ask him for a reference. There is no NEC rule against it. I dont do it by choice. IMO its just cheezy.
 
electricman2 said:
Ask him for a reference. There is no NEC rule against it.
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Actually they could site 110.3(B) as in the UL white book you will find that UL has not tested the use of both the back stabs and the screws at the same time.
 
see what happens man gets busy and misses out on all the fun..I am impressed that the majority of use don't use back stabs..I like charging the mother with five kids a service call because all the outlets in the room went dead because the back stab failed..and when you are done you have a couple hundred dollar bill to give them because the guy before you chumped out..Just say no to back stabs..and tallguy I am sure you inhaled..edited for spelling and i could not miss out on the fun..remember repeat after me just say no to back stabing...( I would rather be in your face..)
 
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electricmanscott said:
On a side note some devices have backwire pressure plates. Have you ever checked those connnections after you have terminated the wires and moved them around to set them into a box. They are almost always loose and require retightening. This to me is a problem.

I'm speaking of GFCI's in this case because that is the type of backwired device I use most.
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I figured out that you are never going to get the torque required installing these with a #2 phillips. I only use a flathead and then tighten the snot out of them and the it is "problem solved". A #1 square head works to, but for some reason I can never keep one of those in my tool pouch. My #2 I've had for years and years, But any #1 I've had makes it a week max, so i've quit trying.:cool:
 
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