Bad gen-set install

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goldstar

goldstar

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BattleCat said:
How did this turn out? If you fixed it, do you have any pictures?
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Sorry, I haven't posted any photos yet because I haven't been back to the job for a number of reasons : 1) The main reason is that I haven't received a signed contract for the work to repair the generator wiring; 2) We had Hurricane Sandy hit during all of this and the HO asked me not to do any work on the system; 3) and another important reason - I haven't gotten paid yet for the renovation work I've done in the basement. They're probably waiting for sub-zero weather to make their decision.
 
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Cleveland Apprentice said:
I'm assuming that the GEC's stay in the main panel and not terminated inside the ATS, correct?
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No. That is not correct. The ATS is equipped with a 200 amp breaker and is considered a service rated disconnect. So, once you put the ATS in front of the existing main breaker panel it becomes the new "main breaker" panel. The water main and rod ground wires get moved over to and are terminated with the neutral in the ATS and all the grounds in the old main breaker panel are separated from the neutrals. The ground wires there are bonded to the enclosure and the neutrals float.

BTW, it's easy if the existing neutral bar(s) was originally designed to float and is bonded to the enclosure via a screw or a strap. Then all you have to do is remove the grounds and bond them to the enclosure with a ground bar. However, if they were designed originally to be bonded to the enclosure then you have to leave the ground wires on the bar and find a way to float the neutrals. Maybe if you had saved a floating neutral bar from an old service upgrade you can use that.
 
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If the h20 and grd rod gec's must terminate in the ATS, then how can that be done with the ATS pictured in this post. There appears to be 4 terminals. The gec's would take up 2 terminals, 1 for utility neutral, 1 for gen neutral, and 1 for panel neutral. I need 5 terminals at the minimum. The egc I understand can ground to the other ground bar, but the gec's must terminate to the same bar as the neutral. So how could this be done? Do they make a larger grounding/neutral bar for this ATS?

:?
 
Smart $

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Cleveland Apprentice said:
If the h20 and grd rod gec's must terminate in the ATS, then how can that be done with the ATS pictured in this post. There appears to be 4 terminals. The gec's would take up 2 terminals, 1 for utility neutral, 1 for gen neutral, and 1 for panel neutral. I need 5 terminals at the minimum. The egc I understand can ground to the other ground bar, but the gec's must terminate to the same bar as the neutral. So how could this be done? Do they make a larger grounding/neutral bar for this ATS?

:?
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You have one unused terminal. Separate GEC's can be irreversibly connected to only one main GEC.

Or you can use that one terminal and run a wire main bonding jumper to the EGC bus, then land the separate GEC's on the EGC bus... but judging from the picture, the EGC bus will need replace with a larger one.
 
infinity

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Smart $ said:
You have one unused terminal. Separate GEC's can be irreversibly connected to only one main GEC.

Or you can use that one terminal and run a wire main bonding jumper to the EGC bus, then land the separate GEC's on the EGC bus... but judging from the picture, the EGC bus will need replace with a larger one.
Click to expand...

If you had "separate GEC's" couldn't you connect one to a singular GEC with a split bolt since it would then become a bonding jumper?
 
Smart $

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infinity said:
If you had "separate GEC's" couldn't you connect one to a singular GEC with a split bolt since it would then become a bonding jumper?
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I'm of the impression that a grounding electrode system bonding jumper can only connect one electrode to another.
 
goldstar

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If you look at the photo, just below the neutral bar there's bolt that bonds that ground bar to the enclosure. So, you have 1) neutral in, 2) neutral out, 3) neutral from the generator and you can land the water main ground on the 4th spot. The GEC wire can be landed on the ground bar on the bottom left side of the cabinet. I don't see any reason why you can't do that. I haven't failed an inspection yet
 
Smart $

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infinity said:
Got a code reference? :)
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No, I don't. My impression is a deduction resulting from no requirement for making a bonding jumper to a GEC connection. Yet there are requirements for GEC and bonding jumper connections to electrodes, and GEC connections to other equipment. A requirement of omission, per se.
 
Smart $

Smart $

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goldstar said:
If you look at the photo, just below the neutral bar there's bolt that bonds that ground bar to the enclosure. So, you have 1) neutral in, 2) neutral out, 3) neutral from the generator and you can land the water main ground on the 4th spot. The GEC wire can be landed on the ground bar on the bottom left side of the cabinet. I don't see any reason why you can't do that. I haven't failed an inspection yet
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How about this one....

250.24(A) said:
(4) Main Bonding Jumper as Wire or Busbar. Where the
main bonding jumper specified in 250.28 is a wire or busbar
and is installed from the grounded conductor terminal
bar or bus to the equipment grounding terminal bar or bus
in the service equipment, the grounding electrode conductor
shall be permitted to be connected to the equipment
grounding terminal, bar, or bus to which the main bonding
jumper is connected.
Click to expand...
 
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goldstar

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infinity said:
Yup, that one's pretty explicit. :)

I cannot tell from the photo but is the neutral bus bonded with only a screw?
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From what I remember there is a strap and nut and it bonds the buss to the enclosure. I'll go outside and look at mine and let you know.
 
goldstar

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Infinity :

Here's what it looks like
HurricaneSandy-Ringwooddamage.jpg
 
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