Bank Drive thru

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dema

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Indiana
The situation is a bank with a detached drive through.

225.30 states that where there is more than one building or structure, that each structure must have a separate disconnect.

In your opinion does 225.32 exception 1 apply to this situation? Or should we have the panel on the structure? If the panel is on the structure, we have various issues including lighting control, the need to run various communication circuits further and so forth. (The structure is not manned and the on/off lights currently are controlled by a relay panel inside the building next to the panelboard controlling all these circuits.)

Additionally, would having all the circuits on a panelboard that has other loads be allowed? Disconnecting one breaker disconnects all the circuits feeding that structure.

As far as safety goes, I don't see that the situation is different for a drive-thru that is across the driveway than for one that is attached to the building - but of course the letter of the law must be followed.

Previous practice by other design firms has been to just run the circuits separately as though the structure was attached.

Thank you for your thoughts.
 
dema said:
The situation is a bank with a detached drive through.

225.30 states that where there is more than one building or structure, that each structure must have a separate disconnect.

In your opinion does 225.32 exception 1 apply to this situation? Or should we have the panel on the structure? If the panel is on the structure, we have various issues including lighting control, the need to run various communication circuits further and so forth. (The structure is not manned and the on/off lights currently are controlled by a relay panel inside the building next to the panelboard controlling all these circuits.)

Additionally, would having all the circuits on a panelboard that has other loads be allowed? Disconnecting one breaker disconnects all the circuits feeding that structure.

As far as safety goes, I don't see that the situation is different for a drive-thru that is across the driveway than for one that is attached to the building - but of course the letter of the law must be followed.

Previous practice by other design firms has been to just run the circuits separately as though the structure was attached.

Thank you for your thoughts.
Click to expand...

A building is a walled & roofed structure ...
A structure is that which is constructed or built.
Every building is a structure but not every structure is a building.

A home is a building. The mailbox on a post at the street is a structure. The lamp post in the yard is a structure.

That being said, we don't do a separate disco for every light pole in a parking lot. (a light pole is a structure).

I don't have the article in front of me. Are you sure it says "structure" and not just "building"?
 
dkidd said:
Use 225.30(E) and 225.32 Exception 1.
Click to expand...
Around here those exceptions are only permitted to be used where the facility has full time electricians working at the site, so if you want to try that, you need to get the AHJs approval first.
 
mgookin said:
A building is a walled & roofed structure ...
A structure is that which is constructed or built.
Every building is a structure but not every structure is a building.

A home is a building. The mailbox on a post at the street is a structure. The lamp post in the yard is a structure.

That being said, we don't do a separate disco for every light pole in a parking lot. (a light pole is a structure).

I don't have the article in front of me. Are you sure it says "structure" and not just "building"?
Click to expand...

There is an exception for light poles.
 
If you where a person with a need to shut down those circuits how would you know where to look and how many circuits there are?

I suggest a feeder with a panel at the structure.
 
iwire said:
There is an exception for light poles.
Click to expand...

After a cup of coffee I got unlazy and read the book. Found the light poles, signs, etc.
Apologies to the OP for not engaging eyeballs before fingers (typing). :ashamed1:
 
How many things on the drive-thru "structure" require power? Can they all be fed from a single circuit, perhaps a MWBC? I am wondering why there is talk of a separate panel on that structure.
 
Light poles often are on individual circuit or a multiwire circuit anyway, so exception specifically for light poles isn't really needed most of the time.

If this is a banking facility but not manned - is likely an ATM, other loads may be lighting or signs, but unless they are all on one MWBC you may need a panel at that structure. If lights or signs are actually separate structures - then run individual circuits to each of them and you are ok.
 
kwired said:
Light poles often are on individual circuit or a multiwire circuit anyway, so exception specifically for light poles isn't really needed most of the time.
Click to expand...

Single circuits to seperate structures are required to have disconnecting means.

I think you maybe confusing that requirement for the GES requirement.
 
iwire said:
Single circuits to seperate structures are required to have disconnecting means.

I think you maybe confusing that requirement for the GES requirement.
Click to expand...

Wasn't thinking GES, but yes a disconnect is still needed. I let the light pole application confuse me which doesn't require a disconnect.
 
petersonra said:
Take a look at 225.32 exception #3.
Click to expand...

Found that right after I posted & learned the lesson of reading before typing!

It was the word "structure" that took me for a loop prior to reading it and seeing the exceptions.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
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