Bar receptacle

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Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

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Tampa Florida
I have a bar oval shape 3 feet by 8 feet base is 12 inches by 6 feet and it sits in middle of room. Because it is fixed in place does this force me into needing receptacles as per wall space even thow it basically is a cabinet and stools are al the way around it. I did run mc to it while floor was open but rather not cut in outlets as there will never be a need. Should add this is all wood not 2x4 drywall type walls but a cabinet.
 
The room it sits in is 15 feet by 48 feet and is one giant recreation room. It in no way devides anything. For reasons of looks i dont want to install any. I just simply covered by a--by coiling up some wire if i turned out being wrong and in case i ever was to sell the place. This is not about cost and really nothing would ever get plugged in . Room is covered by the 12 foot 6 foot rules and has more than enough easy to reach gfci receptacles. I am hoping i am right but if not i will fix as i want no violation of any kind in my home.
 
If it's fixed in place, it's a wall space. 6' high and 8' long. Forget the bar stools. There may not be any there. Someone might put a couch there with two endtables.
 
Jim this is obviously going to be an AHJ call. FWIW I would consider it wall space. If it were a 3' high knee wall would you consider it wall space.

210.52(A)(2)] Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
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This sums it up for me, in fact I also think that a 6x6 post (true 6") would need a recep.
 
Those that say required...


Do you put receptacles on kitchen island to satisfy this?

What about a wall of kitchen cabinets?
 
Cavie said:
If it's fixed in place, it's a wall space.
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I hereby envoke "Charlie's Rule." That is not what 210.52(A)(2)(3) says.

It is not about being fixed in place. It is about being a fixed room divider. A fixed bar-type counter is given as one example of a thing that could be a fixed room divider. A dog is an example of an animal, but that does not imply that every animal is a dog. If a bar-type counter does not divide a room in any way, shape, or form, then it is not a fixed room divider, and therefore 210.52(A)(2)(3) does not apply.
 
electricmanscott said:
Do you put receptacles on kitchen island to satisfy this? What about a wall of kitchen cabinets?
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Dennis Alwon said:
Yes and Yes
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I suggest you take another, closer look at this particular question, Dennis. I think the question is, is an island a "wall space," such that it needs receptacles every 12 feet, and such that (absent a wall behind the island) you have no choice but to put the "required" receptacles on the floor, within 12 inches of the base of the island cabinet? Are you also going to put floor receptacles along the base of kitchen cabinets?

My answers are No and No. These are not wall spaces, so they don't get wall space receptacles. One is an "island," and there is a separate rule for "island" receptacles. The other is a "wall counter space," and there is a separate rule for "wall counter space" receptacles.
 
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Let me put it this way. If something looks like a wall, then it counts as "wall space" only if it meets the measurement requirements. If it doesn't look like a wall, then it counts as "wall space" only if it is on the list of two non-wall-thingys that are named as counting as "wall space." Those two non-wall-thingys are (1) Fixed panels in exterior walls, (2) Fixed room dividers, and (3) Nothing else.
 
electricmanscott said:
From the same guy that is always yelling at everyone else about the code and liability and too bad that the homeowners don't like it etc. Thats why I love Jim! :D

I say none required.
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If it proves to be in violation i will need to add 2 receptacles as total is 6 +1+6+1= 14 feet
And i will put them in. I will not put them in unless its in violation. That's the reason i have the wire already ran. At time of building it i was in a hurry so took the smart way out and be prepaired. Concern is that if a HI was to say its needed and it held up a sale then its a problem. I must admit this is a tough call. As to being used for a couch and end tables that would be crazy. Would it require a floor receptacle if same couch and tables,lamps be placed in the middle of a room with no devider or walls ?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I have a bar oval shape 3 feet by 8 feet base is 12 inches by 6 feet and it sits in middle of room. . . .
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Sure sounds like:
210.52(A)(2)(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as free-standing bar-type counters or railings.
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and
210.52(A)(2)(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width . . .
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Are there no receptacles on this bar at all? Those needed for wall space don't have to be in addition to the one for the blender, I'm sure you know.
 
Volta, you can't just highlight what you want something to say while just ignoring the other applicable words.

The bar in question is not a fixed room divider
 
Volta said:
Sure sounds like:

and


Are there no receptacles on this bar at all? Those needed for wall space don't have to be in addition to the one for the blender, I'm sure you know.
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The bar in question is just used for sitting at and getting drunk. There is a seperate bar for making drinks. This is a private home not a typical commercial bar. We entertain up to 80 people on saturday nights. It is not deviding the room. Now as far as what another owner might do with it is hard to say. It was built to help control sound from the pole area on dance floor. And it very much so did the job with some fancy out of phase speakers.It is highly insulated and needed anchored to floor to keep from anyone pumping it and shaking drinks. Will not likely ever get moved.
 
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