bare feeders overhead

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mivey said:
The conductors are outside, and are permitted to be bare as per 225.4.

310.2 does not apply because of 310.1 "these requirements do not apply...to conductors specifically provided for elsewhere..."
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Where do you see a paragraph that specifically says "bare conductors are allowed".

I see 110.27, but that seems to address equipment more than conductors.

There is also 110.31(C)(2) and 490.24. But thats for over 600 volts, and 110.30 makes it clear you can't use those rules beyond the service point. (In other words, those rules are for the utility company).
 
steve66 said:
I don't see that in the 2008. 225.4 says the wires have to be insulated within 10' of a building. It doesn't say anything about what happens for wires more than 10' from the building.
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We will have to agree to disagree as I think it is quite apparent that the conductors farther then 10' from the building may be bare.
 
Here you go Bob ,..notice the submitter

____________________________________________________________​


Submitter:
Code-Making Panel 4,​



Comment on Proposal No: ​
7-105​



Recommendation: ​
The following is the Final Action of a task group​


appointed to review Proposal 7-105. CMP-4 recommends rejecting the
proposal.​
​

Substantiation: ​
​

CMP-4 has rejected Proposal 4-6 to delete permission to use​


a bare or covered conductor as a grounded circuit conductor. A bare messenger
wire is used as the grounded conductor throughout the country for overhead
utility company service drops without any problems and is permitted by
230.41, Exception for service entrance conductors. Overhead branch circuits
and feeders are permitted to be installed in an outside application where
the wires are distributed using overhead poles similar to utility company
distribution of service conductors.​

Section 225.4 only requires installation
or covering on branch circuit or feeder cables installed using overhead poles
where within 10 ft of any building or structure (structures other than supporting
poles or towers). If phase conductors can be uninsulated from pole to pole, it
would stand to reason that the grounded conductor could be uninsulated.
No evidence is offered that any of the incidents cited by the submitter is
or has been corrected by the application of insulated neutrals; no evidence
is offered that ?Zipse?s Law? has credence or is accepted by any recognized
authority; and no evidence is offered that using the messenger as a current
carrying conductor is a hazard.
This comment was balloted through CMP-4 with the following results:
10 Eligible to Vote
10 Affirmative​
​

Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Panel Statement: ​
​

See panel action and statement on Comment 7-62.​



Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: ​
Affirmative: 14

​
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​
​
​
____________________________________________________________​


​
 
M. D. said:
Here you go Bob ,..notice the submitter​
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Thanks, but there is another one where the CMP explains 'covered' has nothing to do with insulation, only that the conductors are not 'enclosed' :-? :-?​
 
iwire said:
Thanks, but there is another one where the CMP explains 'covered' has nothing to do with insulation, only that the conductors are not 'enclosed' :-? :-?
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Not sure I understand what you are looking for ,...Is this it ??


4-5 Log #1680 NEC-P04 Final Action: Reject
(225.4 Exception)
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald W. Zipse, Electrical Forensics, LLC
Comment on Proposal No: 4-6
Recommendation: Delete the following words from Section 225.4, Exception,
?and grounded circuit conductors?.
Substantiation: This proposal needs to be reconsidered in light of the
acceptance of Code Making Panel No. 7 to stay with their decision to make the
messenger a non-current carrying support cable.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: This exception is necessary, since it recognizes that an
uninsulated grounded conductor is permitted to be bare or covered in other
articles of the NEC. For example, Article 396 permits messenger-supported
wiring to have an uninsulated or covered messenger wire to support insulated
conductors. Another example of a wiring method permitting an uninsulated
grounded conductor is found in 338.10(B)(2) Exception covering service
entrance cable (Type SE or USE cable) where the grounded conductor is
covered within the overall jacket of the cable but would not be considered as
insulated. The grounded conductor is permitted by 250.32(B)(2) to be installed
from one building or structure to another building or structure without the
use of an equipment grounding conductor under certain considerations, with
396.10(A) permitting SE or USE cable to be used as messenger-supported
wire. Millions of miles of overhead cables with uninsulated grounded
conductors as messenger cables for service drops are installed by the utility
companies without problems.
Number Eligible to Vote: 10
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 9 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:
DEATON, R.: Grounded circuit conductors should be covered or insulated
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​
.​

 
M.D.:

Those ROP's appear to be talking about grounded conductors. I think having bare hot wires is a whole other ballgame.

Is it possible that 225.4 was written in such a way to not confilct with utility practices and the NESC, but also not specifically allowing private individuals to run bare wiring across their yards?

That's what I'm thinking, but I admit, I'm not 100% sure if bare conductors were intended to be allowed or not.
 
steve66 said:
M.D.:

Those ROP's appear to be talking about grounded conductors. I think having bare hot wires is a whole other ballgame.......

.
Click to expand...

From My first post ..it is the same ballgame

If phase conductors can be uninsulated from pole to pole, it
would stand to reason that the grounded conductor could be uninsulated.
Click to expand...
 
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