Basement definition

[Mtnskiskate1]

Can someone direct me to the origin of the
diagram showing the the two examples of
a basement which is technically not a basement. I have an inspector who is telling
me if one wall (out of four) has two feet of
fill dirt, we'll be calling that a basement and
ground faulting all receptacles. Saves him the trouble of defining grade plane and applying the 6' and 12' rules. Can't figure out
why we should have all these rules if we're not going to learn and apply them.
Thanks

 

[LarryFine]

Your local building department should be able to provide you with very specific guidelines for what defines a basement in your area.

 

[hbiss]

As far as I'm concerned, any residential slab-on-grade space that has an unfinished concrete floor should have GFCI receptacles. Doesn't matter if there is soil against one or all sides or whether it's called a basement.

When it becomes finished space with a floor and walls etc. then the 6/12 rule comes into play as well as not requiring GFCI's.

-Hal

 

[augie47]

As Larry says, the definition may vary by agency
The IRC at times rivals the NEC in complexity but you can go here and see the definitions:

2015 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE (IRC) | ICC DIGITAL CODES

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

 

[Mtnskiskate1]

As far as I'm concerned, any residential slab-on-grade space that has an unfinished concrete floor should have GFCI receptacles. Doesn't matter if there is soil against one or all sides or whether it's called a basement.

When it becomes finished space with a floor and walls etc. then the 6/12 rule comes into play as well as not requiring GFCI's.

-Hal

It is completely finished, high end, even the mechanical room has wood flooring. I am not
referring to the 6/12 rule on spacing. I am referencing the 6/12 rule for defining grade plane of which I am absolutely in compliance with.

 

[Mtnskiskate1]

As Larry says, the definition may vary by agency
The IRC at times rivals the NEC in complexity but you can go here and see the definitions:

2015 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE (IRC) | ICC DIGITAL CODES

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

Someone posted a diagram awhile back as I
referenced earlier and I am hoping to find its
origin. I have been through all of those definitions in the IRC, IBC, life safety, etc. My argument
is sound and well researched. I have lost this
fight and at this point I just want to make sure they know they are incorrect and UNWILLING to do the work involved in properly classifying a grade plane. The implications are not for (1) job, they are for
the next (100) that come down the pike. Leakage current exceeding 6 ma will always
exist in an Amazon supplied economy. Trane can't even seem to make an air handler compatible with a GFCI. Sorry for the rant, just waiting for my hospital jobs to start requiring AFCI protection, I'm sure that one's right around the next code cycle.

 

[letgomywago]

As far as I'm concerned, any residential slab-on-grade space that has an unfinished concrete floor should have GFCI receptacles. Doesn't matter if there is soil against one or all sides or whether it's called a basement.

When it becomes finished space with a floor and walls etc. then the 6/12 rule comes into play as well as not requiring GFCI's.

-Hal

2020 requires finished basements to have GFCI on "All" outlets not just receptacles. Alot of states have amended this to exclude things like a basement range.

 

[suemarkp]

I think it was this post: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/defining-basement.2558388/

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is completely finished, high end, even the mechanical room has wood flooring. I am not referring to the 6/12 rule on spacing. I am referencing the 6/12 rule for defining grade plane of which I am absolutely in compliance with.

But that same definition that has the 6/12 rule also defines a "story above grade" as being one where the floor of that story is completely above grade. Any thing that is below a "story above grade" is a basement.

 

[rc/retired]

2020 requires finished basements to have GFCI on "All" outlets not just receptacles.

My 2020 NEC states receptacles are required to have GFCI protection. It doesn't state all outlets.

Ron

 

[letgomywago]

My 2020 NEC states receptacles are required to have GFCI protection. It doesn't state all outlets.

Ron

NVM you're right. Just receptacles.

 

[wwhitney]

But that same definition that has the 6/12 rule also defines a "story above grade" as being one where the floor of that story is completely above grade.

Or for which the story above is at least 6' above average grade or is 12' above finished grade at any point.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Mtnskiskate1]

Or for which the story above is at least 6' above average grade or is 12' above finished grade at any point.

Cheers, Wayne

This statement is correct and what I based my argument on but the AHJ has decided it is not in his best interest to adhere to this. Read between the lines, I will have to rule on every one of these and I am not going to bother taking the time. We don't get to ignore our
rules, why should they?

 

[Mtnskiskate1]

I think it was this post: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/defining-basement.2558388/

This is it. Now could the author of this post ( or anyone) tell me where this originated from?

 

[LarryFine]

We don't get to ignore our rules, why should they?

Agreed. It's just as wrong to fail a job incorrectly as it is to pass one incorrectly.

 

[retirede]

This is it. Now could the author of this post ( or anyone) tell me where this originated from?

The graphic in that post shows the source as 2015 IRC and NFPA 101.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Or for which the story above is at least 6' above average grade or is 12' above finished grade at any point.

Cheers, Wayne

Then there are almost no houses in my town that have basements. The clause before the "or" is totally independent from the rest of the definition.

(from a building code site)
Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade plane, or in which the finished surface of the floor next above is:

1. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane; or
2. More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point.

This definition has caused some confusion in the past, so here is a step by step breakdown:

1. Is the floor surface of the story in question located entirely above the grade plane elevation?
2. Is the floor surface of the floor above the story in question located more than 6 feet above the grade plane elevation?
3. Is the floor surface of the floor above the story in question located more than 12 feet above any of the grade measurements at any point along the building exterior walls?

If you answered yes to any of the three questions above, the floor in question is considered a story above grade plane.

 

[wwhitney]

Then there are almost no houses in my town that have basements. The clause before the "or" is totally independent from the rest of the definition.

I'm not sure what your point is.

I agree with the material you quoted below the above comment. Meet any of the 3 criteria, and the story is not a basement. Fail to meet any of them, and the story is a basement. You initially mentioned just one of the 3 criteria, and I was just adding the other two.

Cheers, Wayne