Basement Finish

[jeff43222]

I have a HO who is finishing most of her basement, and I'm going to be wiring it up for her. I'm not 100% clear on how 210.52(G) should be interpreted. Here's the situation:

The area around the furnace and water heater is being turned into a room/workshop with a large door for access. That room will be unfinished on the inside (no drywall, bare joists above, bare floor). The rest of the basement will have drywall, a drop ceiling will be put in, and vinyl or carpet will be put down on the floor. There will be a separate (finished) laundry room with a door, a small pantry with a door, and a small closet where the plumbing comes in. Otherwise, the remaining space to be finished is irregularly shaped but without any doors dividing it up. Except for the furnace room, laundry room, pantry, and closet, this space is intended to be used as a place for her kids to play and do arts & crafts.

My question regards the part of 210.52(G) that says:

"Where a portion of the basement is finished into one or more habitable rooms, each separate unfinished portion shall have a receptacle outlet installed in accordance with this section."​

What part of this basement is considered a habitable room? My feeling is that the only habitable part of the basement is the irregularly shaped space, and technically it's really only one "portion" of the basement since there are no clear demarcartions. Can I really get away with installing just one receptacle (in addition to the laundry, of course) for the whole basement because of this?

I'm asking because the HO doesn't really think a lot of receptacles are needed, and she wants to keep expenses down. She's mainly interested in installing a lot of lights in various places.

 

[Minuteman]

this space is intended to be used as a place for her kids to play and do arts & crafts.

My question regards the part of 210.52(G) that says:

"Where a portion of the basement is finished into one or more habitable rooms, each separate unfinished portion shall have a receptacle outlet installed in accordance with this section."​

Jeff, the only thing that bothers me is the "play and do arts and crafts". Seems to me, that before long it will be filled with a Plasma TV, PlayStation, DVD, and Surround Sound. Might even have a small fridge and a desktop computer. So, what do you think?

 

[jeff43222]

There actually is a plan for a fridge, but it will be in the utility/laundry room. The HO specifically requested a receptacle in there for that.

As for all the electronic toys, the HO mentioned that she wanted this space to be "away" from the TV and such upstairs, kind of a place where the kids could play without the parents having to worry about the electronics and nice furniture getting messed up with colorful fruit-style sweetened beverages.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for thinking ahead and planning for future use, and I've pointed out to the HO that if receptacles are going to be installed, now is the time to do it, not after the whole place is rocked over. Realistically, I don't see how the space is all that suitable for TVs and video games. Moreover, the 30-slot panel is full, and the HO is interested in keeping costs down.

I'm just trying to look at the project from all the angles, and one of them is "What is the bare minimum number of receptacles required by code?" I'll present all the information to her and let her make the final call on the number and location of the receptacles.

 

[LarryFine]

Jeff, I'd say that the laundry room and closets, as well as the irregularly-shaped space, are all finished areas, and each subject to the rules governing them. To wit (I love saying that!):

The laundry room should have a laundry receptacle circuit (and dryer, unless gas), the refrigerator receptacle circuit, and a switched lighting outlet. Consider a small bath fan.

The irregular space should have the usual "6'-12'-12'-6'" receptacle spacing and a switched lighting outlet. I recommend a field of recessed or fluorescent lights or it'll be dark.

The remaining unfinished area where the furnace and water heater are is the unfinished section that only needs one receptacle (GFCI); if it's a workshop, you'll want a few more.

One thing about home workshops: people tend to go nuts and run a circuit for every receptacle. Unless there'll be a group working, one or two circuit's should be plenty. (Again, GFCI.)

One other more thing: while I know you didn't ask, recommend to the customer that a half-bath be put in, too. There'll be enough basement activity (and resale value) to warrant it.

 

[wattsup!]

re: basement receps

re: basement receps

Hey Jeff, I'm new to this forum, but here goes:

As required by NEC 210.52 (G)..all "unfinished portions" of the basement require a receptacle (GFCI protected per NEC 210.8(A)(5)). I take that to mean that if you have a 60' long room and take the center 20' portion and make it a "habitable room", the unfinished sections on either side would need a receptacle.

Now the big question is, would the AHJ expect the "habitable" portion to conform to NEC 210.52(A) and state that this new room would be considered a "recreation room", "parlor" or otherwise.

Just my dos centavos.

 

[LarryFine]

I take that to mean that if you have a 60' long room and take the center 20' portion and make it a "habitable room", the unfinished sections on either side would need a receptacle.

Correctamundo.

Now the big question is, would the AHJ expect the "habitable" portion to conform to NEC 210.52(A) and state that this new room would be considered a "recreation room", "parlor" or otherwise.

Yes, but won't require GFCI protection.

Just my dos centavos.

You just graduated to a nickel.

 

[jeff43222]

Oops -- I didn't read 210.52(G) closely enough (long day...). I thought it said that finished portions of the basement only needed one receptacle. So it seems that what I told the HO about the 6'-12' rule on receptacle spacing was actually correct. She's not happy about it.

So it sounds like we agree that the laundry room is not "habitable" as far as the code is concerned. The HO wants one receptacle for the fridge and one general-use receptacle in addition to the laundry and dryer circuits. The existing dryer circuit is #10 copper "protected" with a 50A breaker.

The furnace room already has one working receptacle on the furnace itself (in the same box as the furnace kill switch). I think another receptacle near the proposed workbench would be a good idea, but the HO doesn't want one.

Lights are not such a big problem. She wants lots of them. I spent a fair amount of time on the phone tonight talking with her carpenter about how to coordinate the drop ceiling with the planned recessed can lights. He sounded like he knew what he was doing and was willing to work with me. That was a refreshing change of pace.

I'd prefer to run a few new circuits, but the panelboard is full, and I'm pretty sure the budget doesn't have room for a subpanel. I also thought about a half bath, but that's not going to happen. They have no interest in having plumbers come out, and 95% of the framing is done. There's also really no room for one. It's not all that big of a basement to begin with.

 

[LarryFine]

So it seems that what I told the HO about the 6'-12' rule on receptacle spacing was actually correct. She's not happy about it.

Too bad, code says otherwise. (You are permitting, right?) She'll be much unhappier later when she starts using the room and there's nowhere to plug in a TV, lamps, or a vacuum cleaner.

So it sounds like we agree that the laundry room is not "habitable" as far as the code is concerned. The HO wants one receptacle for the fridge and one general-use receptacle in addition to the laundry and dryer circuits.

No, a laundry room is a habitable room, but like a kitchen or bath, the rules are a little different.

The existing dryer circuit is #10 copper "protected" with a 50A breaker.

No, it's not. If it were a 30-amp breaker, then it would be protected. Please change that!

The furnace room already has one working receptacle on the furnace itself (in the same box as the furnace kill switch). I think another receptacle near the proposed workbench would be a good idea, but the HO doesn't want one.

I would definitely not use the furnace circuit as the required receptacle. I envision a cord strung from the furnace to the workbench, and you making a service call that she won't want to pay when she has no heat one night because her nephew tripped a breaker with a saw.

Lights are not such a big problem. She wants lots of them. I spent a fair amount of time on the phone tonight talking with her carpenter about how to coordinate the drop ceiling with the planned recessed can lights. He sounded like he knew what he was doing and was willing to work with me. That was a refreshing change of pace.

A carpenter shouldn't be needed. New-work recessed-can brackets attach directly to ceiling grid T-bars.

I'd prefer to run a few new circuits, but the panelboard is full, and I'm pretty sure the budget doesn't have room for a subpanel.

Will the panel accept tandems? If not, then you have a choice: sub-panel or service upgrade. Electrical safety is more important than a budget, and fire knows no social-class boundaries.

I also thought about a half bath, but that's not going to happen. They have no interest in having plumbers come out, and 95% of the framing is done. There's also really no room for one. It's not all that big of a basement to begin with.

It was just a suggestion. Keep it in mind for the next basement job. (Bathrooms need wiring, too.)

 

[iwire]

Too bad, code says otherwise. (You are permitting, right?) She'll be much unhappier later when she starts using the room and there's nowhere to plug in a TV, lamps, or a vacuum cleaner.

Her choice if not for code.

No, a laundry room is a habitable room, but like a kitchen or bath, the rules are a little different.

I thought it was an 'area' not a room.

No, it's not. If it were a 30-amp breaker, then it would be protected.

I am sure he knows that.

Please change that!

Send the bill to Larry @ Mike Holt's electrical forum.

I would definitely not use the furnace circuit as the required receptacle. I envision a cord strung from the furnace to the workbench, and you making a service call that she won't want to pay when she has no heat one night because her nephew tripped a breaker with a saw.

Actually that is a violation of 422.12. The 'central heating equipment' must be on an individual branch circuit.

IMO you are not responsible to remove the existing violation (it may not have been one when installed) but you can not plan on it for the new work.

Which brings up the issue of what are you required to do in areas that are not being worked on?

These unfinished areas are existing, IMO your only new work is in the area being finished.

A carpenter shouldn't be needed. New-work recessed-can brackets attach directly to ceiling grid T-bars.

They sure do....as long as the tops don't hit stuff that the carpenter put in the way.

you have a choice: sub-panel or service upgrade. Electrical safety is more important than a budget, and fire knows no social-class boundaries.

Or he can use the existing circuits and move on.

Jeff is not a newbie, I am sure he will not do anything that would endanger the homeowner.

 

[infinity]

The rest of the basement will have drywall, a drop ceiling will be put in, and vinyl or carpet will be put down on the floor.

This sounds like a habitable room to me.