Bath/bedroom remodel
- Thread starter flick
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jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
The NEC also has no definition of "bedroom." Interesting, since a bedroom is required to have AFCI protection.
I guess it's up to the AHJ to decide what constitutes a bedroom.
The NEC also has no definition of "bedroom." Interesting, since a bedroom is required to have AFCI protection.
I guess it's up to the AHJ to decide what constitutes a bedroom.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
I looked in the building code, and they do not have a definition of Bedroom either...???
The IEEE dictionary does not either. I find that hard to believe. That could be a proposal in the making!!!!
I looked in the building code, and they do not have a definition of Bedroom either...???
The IEEE dictionary does not either. I find that hard to believe. That could be a proposal in the making!!!!
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
The definition of bathroom in the NEC & Building Code is not a room, but an area... that would make the bathroom area of the open bedroom just that, with the bedroom still being the bedroom....whatever a bedroom really is
The definition of bathroom in the NEC & Building Code is not a room, but an area... that would make the bathroom area of the open bedroom just that, with the bedroom still being the bedroom....whatever a bedroom really is
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
JB
we will propose them as bedroom/offices...
JB
we will propose them as bedroom/offices...
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
I still think you should put smokes in them there "offices" when you build your new house.
I still think you should put smokes in them there "offices" when you build your new house.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub, or a shower.
I do believe the key to this bathroom deal is found in the definition of the word and the use of the term "area" instead of room.
A closet does not make a bedroom if it did then there would be a lot of foyers and halls where people would be sleeping.
edited for spwlling
[ December 12, 2005, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub, or a shower.
I do believe the key to this bathroom deal is found in the definition of the word and the use of the term "area" instead of room.
A closet does not make a bedroom if it did then there would be a lot of foyers and halls where people would be sleeping.
edited for spwlling
[ December 12, 2005, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
We call it a "sink." Then we discover that there are no requirements in the NEC concerning this "sink." Finally, we talk with the owner to see if the owner wants, and is willing to pay for, something above and beyond the code minimums.
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
As Pierre and JWElectric have stated the NEC Definition of a bathroom is an AREA, not a room. The fact is that the area that contains a toilet, shower or tub, and a sink is a bathroom. A receptacle is required "adjacent" to the bathroom sink (I believe there is also something about 3'). The code requires that receptacles in "bathrooms" be GFCI protected. Since the receptacle adjacent to the sink would also be in the bedroom (whatever that is, but lets assume it is a room in which people sleep - not counting my big chair in the "living room'!) Arc Fault protection is also required. Yes, Arc Fault and GFCI can be installed on the same circuit. Since there is no sink in the room with the toilet and shower the NEC does not require that a receptacle be installed in this area, however remember that the NEC is not a design document, and that compliance with the NEC does not guarantee that an installation will be "adequate, convenient. etc.". It seems that the installation of a receptacle in this room would be a good thing, but not an NEC requirement. And yes, technically you could have a 20' X 20' room with only a tub and toilet in it and not install any other receptacles. I think that is why the AHJ is given such far-reaching authority, to make determinations that prevent contractors and home-owners from taking things to a ridiculous extreme.
As Pierre and JWElectric have stated the NEC Definition of a bathroom is an AREA, not a room. The fact is that the area that contains a toilet, shower or tub, and a sink is a bathroom. A receptacle is required "adjacent" to the bathroom sink (I believe there is also something about 3'). The code requires that receptacles in "bathrooms" be GFCI protected. Since the receptacle adjacent to the sink would also be in the bedroom (whatever that is, but lets assume it is a room in which people sleep - not counting my big chair in the "living room'!) Arc Fault protection is also required. Yes, Arc Fault and GFCI can be installed on the same circuit. Since there is no sink in the room with the toilet and shower the NEC does not require that a receptacle be installed in this area, however remember that the NEC is not a design document, and that compliance with the NEC does not guarantee that an installation will be "adequate, convenient. etc.". It seems that the installation of a receptacle in this room would be a good thing, but not an NEC requirement. And yes, technically you could have a 20' X 20' room with only a tub and toilet in it and not install any other receptacles. I think that is why the AHJ is given such far-reaching authority, to make determinations that prevent contractors and home-owners from taking things to a ridiculous extreme.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
So what seperates one AREA from another ?
So what seperates one AREA from another ?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
I was hoping that nobody would take us into the realm of bathroom humor. Please - no more of that.
I was hoping that nobody would take us into the realm of bathroom humor. Please - no more of that.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: Bath/bedroom remodel
That works both ways. I have been given some pretty ridiculous things to do by field inspectors to keep them satisfied that were either not in the code, or worse yet - in opposition to what the code book says to do.
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