bath fan light

[jimwalker]

Re: bath fan light

A fan is required even if all that is in the room is a shower .So one might assume it is for moisture as well as smell.I have no dought that it helps with moisture.And it sure helps with smell from others ( my s--t don't stink).The idea that it removes methane is what i am not convinced about.If indeed that sink had no trap then that fan might work against us by creating a vacuum.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: bath fan light

Originally posted by jimwalker:
A fan is required even if all that is in the room is a shower.

Not really. A window with 1.5 square fet of opening also satisfies the code.

If indeed that sink had no trap then that fan might work against us by creating a vacuum.

Have you ever seen or even heard of a sink without a trap?

 

[roger]

Re: bath fan light

Ryan, you did it again, you have to give Jim time to reply to his post.

Roger

 

[ryan_618]

Re: bath fan light

Yeah I know...but when someone throws it underhand I swing at at!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bath fan light

Was almost an hour between them.How long should he wait?
A sink with no trap.Not legal but in some backwards states that have no building permits or inspections anything might happen.Yes i have seen one(but it ran out the building onto the yard.My wife was raised in them hills and indoor plumbing is just starting to be seen there.I won't name the state because they are great people that would give you anything they have.To them a upgrade service is a 2 pole 60
They do make fine shine LOL

[ January 04, 2004, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: bath fan light

"Not really. A window with 1.5 square feet of opening also satisfies the code."

Ryan in MA we are required to install a fan wether or not there is a window. No requirements on switching as far as I know. My building code book is under my sons pillow right now. Keeping his head elevated while battling cold, ear infection etc. Yes the book is that thick!

[ January 04, 2004, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: bath fan light

Why would you have a building code that has stringent insulation requirements, minnimum r values for windows and such yet allows an open window for ventilation? And i thought the NEC had some oddball rules.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: bath fan light

I think that an open window would convey moisture to the outdoors better than an exhaust fan. I'm not a mechanical engineer though

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: bath fan light

Here in Tn. we eat a lot of pickled eggs and beans.

If you were in some of the public rest rooms I've been in and heard the sounds coming from the stalls well sometimes I wonder they are not rated class 1. Just hope and pray sometimes I get out before some one cranks the electric hand dryer up.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bath fan light

See ,if they had a fan on that switch you would be safe LOL

 

[rong111]

Re: bath fan light

panasonic makes a fan that costs over $200! it moves more cfm than all the loud $15 fans. and you will NOT hear it running even with your ear at the grill! now if everyone could afford one of these, i guess it wouldnt really matter if it was on the same switch

i only saw one of these in a 3.5 million dolar home where the whole master bath was just over kill anyways. but the fan impressed me even more than the sauna/steam room. it was so quiet!

ron g.

 

[iwire]

Re: bath fan light

Originally posted by andrew:
You feel you are right even though you have not asked the right people.

Andrew, that could be true, can you tell us who the "right people" are?

Originally posted by andrew:
It is for the Methane Gas created. Now go ahead and laugh but I give all you non believers a challange to find where it says that methane Gas is not created in a bathroom and the fan is not used for this purpose. Give me a code article from you state saying the fan is for moisture only and not for Methane Gas.

Andrew you are asking us to prove a negative.

There is no code to tell us the bath fan is not for making noise to cover the "unpleasant" sounds coming from the bathroom.

Does that mean that making noise is the fans purpose?

Originally posted by andrew:
Tell me where it says moisture from the shower is a danger.

From the EPA web site

Ventilation
Good ventilation protects both your health and your home. Ventilation is especially important in bathrooms to remove unwanted moisture. This helps prevent the growth of mold and mildew, which can cause allergic reactions and aggravate lung diseases such as asthma. During renovation, be sure to check that your bathroom fan is functioning properly. This means not only that the motor makes noise or that the fan is running; it needs to be exhausting a sufficient amount of air*. And the air should be exhausted directly to the outside, and not just into an attic or some other space in the house. For information on how to determine if your fan is working properly see the Homeowner's Guide to Ventilation, published by the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA).

Originally posted by andrew:
Remember my chanllange prove I am wrong.

How about this, you provide any outside reference to prove your right?

Show us a code, a manufactures recommendation, anything other than your opinion and we would be getting somewhere

And still have a Happy New Year,.
Bob

[ January 05, 2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bath fan light

We all seem to be in agreement that at least in part it removes moisture.We also all seem to agree that it performs some other functions,makes noise,removes smell,what we seem not to all agree on is if it removes or even was intended to remove methane gas.Nor can we seem to agree that methane gas is a major problem in a code compliant bathroom(properly installed with working traps).As electricians our job ends at knowing the answer to the original question
(Is it required for the fan to run in a bathroom when the light is on ? there is no window, new const.),and even that question is not suppose to be the electricians problem.We were given an approved plan that either showed 1 switch or 2.Our problem might begin if the print showed only 1 switch and the customer is asking if he can have 2.My method may be wrong but unless there is a code saying i can't do something (within reason)then i believe i can.The NEC goes to great effort to cover everything they can that involves safe electric systems.It is not the intent of NEC to cover building code on other issues of a building such as venting,plumbing or structual.I for one would like to know exactly were we stand on the original question.A code from whatever book would be nice.Opinions are just that and inspectors can't site us on them.


0

 

[eprice]

Re: bath fan light

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I for one would like to know exactly were we stand on the original question.A code from whatever book would be nice.Opinions are just that and inspectors can't site us on them.

0

The answere will depend on what building code is in effect in your area. The IRC in Section R303.3, requires a window with not less than 3 sq. ft. glazed area, at least half of which must be openable. The exhaust fan and arificial light are allowed as an alternative to the window. There is no mention of how the fan must be switched. If the above window is present, then the exhaust fan is not even required.

The IBC on the other hand, requires mechanical ventilation of bathrooms with or without natural ventilation, and referes to the IMC. IMC 403.3 seems, to me, to require that the mechanical ventilation operate whenever the bathroom is occupied.

So in my area, it would depend upon whether or not the building in question falls within the scope of the IRC, primarily one- and two-family dwellings.

 

[roger]

Re: bath fan light

Jim,

As electricians our job ends at knowing the answer to the original question

are you saying we don't need to know anything beyond the NEC?

Have you ever had to replace say a structural beam or Coulomb you drilled or notched because you didn't need to know anything about structure or building codes? No I hope.

I know you are residential, but in my office besides NFPA 70 I own NFPA 72, 99, 101,110 UL, white, green, and orange books. In the company library we have many more as well as the complete set of NC building codes, SCCBI information, etc...

On any given day I could be into a number of these books, or absolutely be run over by other parties.

We can not do our job with one book anymore.

BTW, here is some more info on the health issues with moisture.

excerpt

Two conditions are essential to support biological growth of all kinds:


Nutrients.
Moisture.


Bacteria, fungi and molds find nourishment and can flourish in improperly maintained air ducts, air conditioners, humidifiers, dehumidifiers, air-cleaning filters, carpets and in improperly ventilated places where moisture is likely to collect, such as bathrooms, kitchens, laundry rooms and basements

Roger

[ January 05, 2004, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[andrew]

Re: bath fan light

Well,

I have to apologize to all, I asked a mechanical inspector about this issue today and everyone is correct. The fan takes care of the moisture and has nothing to do with my opinion. I had some back up yesterday but he was not right, but I am the one who made the mistake and, again, I apologize.

Andrew

 

[iwire]

Re: bath fan light

Andrew, I have much respect for you, thanks for coming back with the new info.

Welcome and I think we will all remember that you are a man of your word.

I have had to admit I was wrong here more times than I want to think about. :roll:


Bob

 

[roger]

Re: bath fan light

Andrew, Ditto what Iwire said.

With that said, I hope you will stay active here.

Roger

 

[hurk27]

Re: bath fan light

Andrew Thanks
This is what learning is all about as we are all subject to being wrong. I know I have been and will be again. With the speed that new technology is expanding and new ways to do the same job are evolving it pays to keep an open mind.
Again I say thanks

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bath fan light

We all get a few things wrong,even me (still got egg on face)
For a while i thought just maybe i had missed something.
We still don't have the original question answered, do we ?