Bathfan help

[dwellselectric]

Hey guys I just came from a friend of the familys house. They told me that there bathfan that they had installed about three years ago keeps popping the breaker. Went by and saw they had a fan installed in the shower itself haha. Well the shower is all glass doors with only a little opening above the door. I know that it was tripping the GFCI breaker because of the steam getting into the fan and building up water. I have never seen a fan installed in a shower like this before dont know if its legal to be honest with you. But I didn't know if any of you guys have any ideas for a replacement fan if such a thing is made? Here is what it looks like and thank you for your help as always :smile:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z250/dSilanskas/Bathfan.jpg

 

[mdshunk]

It's legal, but most fans (that one included) have a sticker inside that say they need GFCI protection when installed over a shower or tub like that.

That said, I'm not sure how water vapor in that particular fan would trip the breaker. In my experience, with that model in particular and one just like it, the leads coming off the lampholder have insulation that fails. This puts bare wires in contact with a metal piece where they go through a metal bushed hole. When you run the fan motor, this vibrates bare wire against the metal. I'd highly advise you to give this fan a good visual look-see.

 

[mdshunk]

I knew I had a picture of it someplace. This is what happens:

 

[dwellselectric]

I took the fan apart checked the voltage checked for a break in the wires and nothing was wrong. So I put the fan together had it running for about twenty minutes no trip. Put the shower on and within two minutes the gfci breaker tripped

 

[mdshunk]

Put the shower on and within two minutes the gfci breaker tripped

Oh, sorry. My bad. I just now noticed you said GFCI breaker. I can see that now. I've installed an aweful lot of fans in showers and tubs, but never really had an issue with any of them tripping the GFCI protection. This is commonly done, so I suspect the fan in your case has failed by unusual means, and the steam probably did play a role. My troubleshooting method would be to unplug the motor and the light, and megger each. My money would be on water contaminated windings in the little shaded pole motor, but who knows. The pieces and parts for these fans are dirt cheap.

 

[dwellselectric]

Yes the fan is only 80 cfm so I might change the gut to a 110cfm. Thank you for your help like I say I never seen a fan installed inside the shower like that before.

 

[K8MHZ]

Yes the fan is only 80 cfm so I might change the gut to a 110cfm. Thank you for your help like I say I never seen a fan installed inside the shower like that before.

We have two of them in our house.

When they were installed GFCIs were not required in bathrooms other than on receptacles. That is true up to at least the 2002 NEC (210.8). Since the 2005 book is in the service truck at the owner's home I don't have one to look at to see if there was a change made.

 

[K8MHZ]

I took the fan apart checked the voltage checked for a break in the wires and nothing was wrong. So I put the fan together had it running for about twenty minutes no trip. Put the shower on and within two minutes the gfci breaker tripped

Try the GFCI without the fan running. The humidity in the bathroom from the shower being on may be causing the GFCI to trip. The fan may have nothing to do with it.

 

[mdshunk]

We have two of them in our house.

When they were installed GFCIs were not required in bathrooms other than on receptacles. That is true up to at least the 2002 NEC (210.8). Since the 2005 book is in the service truck at the owner's home I don't have one to look at to see if there was a change made.

They still aren't, to my knowledge. This was always a 110.3(B) type issue, related to the manufacturer's instruction to GFCI protect them if they're over a tub or shower.

 

[K8MHZ]

They still aren't, to my knowledge. This was always a 110.3(B) type issue, related to the manufacturer's instruction to GFCI protect them if they're over a tub or shower.

Thanks, Marc!

 

[dwellselectric]

Try the GFCI without the fan running. The humidity in the bathroom from the shower being on may be causing the GFCI to trip. The fan may have nothing to do with it.

Its a GFCI breaker and it only trips when the shower is running. The only thing on the breaker is that fan

 

[K8MHZ]

Its a GFCI breaker and it only trips when the shower is running. The only thing on the breaker is that fan

To clarify, I gather that the breaker is in a panel not located in the bathroom?

If so, my theory may not hold water. :wink:

I find it hard to imagine that the fan has a dedicated circuit, though. If it were me I would spend the time to actually figure out the problem, but the most cost effective way would probably be to just replace the fan with a different unit.

Is there attic access above the shower? That may make the R&R a bit easier.

Is the breaker such that you are able to discern between an overload and a ground fault when it trips? If not, a quicky check would be to do a breaker swap. I guess it doesn't matter, really. If it trips or not would make a difference, my bet is that the fan would still need replacement and the breaker is just doing it's job. There is probably some leakage from the hot to the grounding conductor when excessive humidity is present.

 

[wireguru]

is there an attic above it? you could use a fantech inline fan retrofit kit. gets rid of the gfci breaker, and super quiet.

 

[cadpoint]

Spring for some Jelly Wire Nuts seems like a perfect application for them.

I beleive there was a major recall on a very popular manufacture a few years back.

 

[dwellselectric]

Yes the fan is dedicated because there was a heat/fan unit before hand. Fan Tech would be great but she wants out cheap and its first floor no attic above I will just replace the guts of the fan

 

[brother]

Im surprised to see that the bath fan is not under the same requirements as lights, (assuming its not a light fan combo). 2005 NEC 410.4(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas, deals with this issue. 8ft vertical and 3ft horizontal to stay out of the 'zone'.

It just seems that common sense would dictate that would be.

 

[iwire]

Im surprised to see that the bath fan is not under the same requirements as lights, (assuming its not a light fan combo). 2005 NEC 410.4(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas, deals with this issue. 8ft vertical and 3ft horizontal to stay out of the 'zone'.

It just seems that common sense would dictate that would be.

I can place a light fixture in the same place that the fan is, or I could replace it with a fan light

I could also put wall sconces in that space if they where wet location rated.

 

[brother]

I can place a light fixture in the same place that the fan is, or I could replace it with a fan light

I could also put wall sconces in that space if they where wet location rated.

devils advocate?? lol yes im sure there are always to do things if its 'listed for the purpose'.

 

[iwire]

devils advocate?? lol yes im sure there are always to do things if its 'listed for the purpose'.

All I am saying is that lights (excluding tracks and hanging type) and fans (excluding paddle fans) can be installed inside 'the zone'.

 

[brother]

All I am saying is that lights (excluding tracks and hanging type) and fans (excluding paddle fans) can be installed inside 'the zone'.

like i said, if its 'listed for the purpose'.