Hi, I have an inspector in Westland MI that is telling me that I cannot wire the light and fan off of the required 20 amp bathroom branch circuit. There is only one bathroom in the home and the circuit stays in that one bathroom. He is charging our company a $75 re-inspec. fee. I am totally lost on this and was wondering how he might be interpreting 210-10 (c)(3) and 210-23(a). If someone has an answer please respond. Thanks
bathroom circuit
- Thread starter hastime
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rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: bathroom circuit
You are correct. Is there a local amendment to prohibit your installation? P.S. I will only charge you $50 to misinterpret the code
You are correct. Is there a local amendment to prohibit your installation? P.S. I will only charge you $50 to misinterpret the code
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: bathroom circuit
I think the inspector is correct. The 210.11 throws you to 210.23. However, the exception at 210.23 negates the permissive of 210.23 and locks 210.11 (C) to it's original "Such circuits shall have no other outlets" which limits you to receptacles only. The same applies to the laundry circuit.
Confusing isn't it!
I think the inspector is correct. The 210.11 throws you to 210.23. However, the exception at 210.23 negates the permissive of 210.23 and locks 210.11 (C) to it's original "Such circuits shall have no other outlets" which limits you to receptacles only. The same applies to the laundry circuit.
Re: bathroom circuit
Dave,
I have to agree with your logic concerning what these two sections taken together say. However, I have to think that is not how the code writers intended it to come out. It is saying in essence, the 20 amp bathroom circuit may only supply receptacles except that if the circuit only supplies one bathroom it may supply other outlets and long as its only the receptacles
Dave,
I have to agree with your logic concerning what these two sections taken together say. However, I have to think that is not how the code writers intended it to come out. It is saying in essence, the 20 amp bathroom circuit may only supply receptacles except that if the circuit only supplies one bathroom it may supply other outlets and long as its only the receptacles
Re: bathroom circuit
It was not confusing to you brought this up.
I think that the lights and oulets can be on the same 20 amp circuit as long as they are in the same bathroom. The inspector is wrong.
The way I read the exception for 210.23 (a) is that as long as you stay within the room that you have this circuit.... you are ok to have the lights, fan and outlets on the same circuit.
It was not confusing to you brought this up.
I think that the lights and oulets can be on the same 20 amp circuit as long as they are in the same bathroom. The inspector is wrong.
The way I read the exception for 210.23 (a) is that as long as you stay within the room that you have this circuit.... you are ok to have the lights, fan and outlets on the same circuit.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: bathroom circuit
You got it, run as much as you want on one circuit in one bathroom or only receptacle outlets in more than one bathroom.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: bathroom circuit
Bob,
Have you lost your mind??
Bob,
Have you lost your mind??
Now why can't they just say it like this?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: bathroom circuit
Originally posted by websparky:
Bob,
Have you lost your mind??
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: bathroom circuit
Sorry, I was bored.
Not enough posts to keep us goin'.... so I thought I'd throw out an anomily.
Oops! I did it again.
Sorry
Sorry, I was bored.
Not enough posts to keep us goin'.... so I thought I'd throw out an anomily.
Oops! I did it again.
Sorry
Re: bathroom circuit
the bathroom circuits have been redefined for the last few cycles. In either the 93 or 96, lighting was not allowed on bath (s) circuit.
Prior to that, the circuit was allowed to feed all the GFCI plugs (in single family residences). I won't admit to remembering more before that.
If they have adopted the new code, (99 or 2003)protest, appeal. If the code adopted is still the older codes, (93 or 96), appeal as alternate construction/new code. Show the inspector the code.
paul
the bathroom circuits have been redefined for the last few cycles. In either the 93 or 96, lighting was not allowed on bath (s) circuit.
Prior to that, the circuit was allowed to feed all the GFCI plugs (in single family residences). I won't admit to remembering more before that.
If they have adopted the new code, (99 or 2003)protest, appeal. If the code adopted is still the older codes, (93 or 96), appeal as alternate construction/new code. Show the inspector the code.
paul
Re: bathroom circuit
Going off topic slightly.
I always see the bath GFCI's done like this: all the bath GFCI's are off one 20A breaker.
Better practice would be to have each bath receptacle on it's own 20A breaker (IMO, the NEC may head this way). Think of all the blowdryers, curling irons, and other accessories that get pluged into these outlets.
Also, when finishing a basement, if the house is wired with the all the existing bath GFCI's on one 20A breaker, is it OK to run the new bath circuit to the panel and pull off the existing bath #12 and wirenut into it and pigtail to the breaker?
Going off topic slightly.
I always see the bath GFCI's done like this: all the bath GFCI's are off one 20A breaker.
Better practice would be to have each bath receptacle on it's own 20A breaker (IMO, the NEC may head this way). Think of all the blowdryers, curling irons, and other accessories that get pluged into these outlets.
Also, when finishing a basement, if the house is wired with the all the existing bath GFCI's on one 20A breaker, is it OK to run the new bath circuit to the panel and pull off the existing bath #12 and wirenut into it and pigtail to the breaker?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: bathroom circuit
I agree that the Exception to 210.23(A) was poorly worded. If the word ?receptacle? had been left out, it would have accomplished its mission, without creating confusion.
That being said, I submit that the Inspector was wrong. Take a look at the title of 210.23. It is ?Permissible Loads.? This section is talking about how much load you can connect to a circuit. It does not address what types of load, just how much load. So when the Exception to 210.11(C)(3) refers the reader to 210.23(A), what it is saying is that:
</font>
I agree that the Exception to 210.23(A) was poorly worded. If the word ?receptacle? had been left out, it would have accomplished its mission, without creating confusion.
That being said, I submit that the Inspector was wrong. Take a look at the title of 210.23. It is ?Permissible Loads.? This section is talking about how much load you can connect to a circuit. It does not address what types of load, just how much load. So when the Exception to 210.11(C)(3) refers the reader to 210.23(A), what it is saying is that:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is OK to put all outlets within a single bathroom on the same circuit.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you do choose to put all outlets within a single bathroom on the same circuit, then you must limit the amount of load to the amount described in 210.23(A).</font>
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: bathroom circuit
Dave the first part allows you to supply one bathroom on a 20 amp circuit for lighting,exhaust fans,receptacles.Exception does not allow you to supply receptacle outlet(s) in other bathrooms that`s all it`s saying.
Dave the first part allows you to supply one bathroom on a 20 amp circuit for lighting,exhaust fans,receptacles.Exception does not allow you to supply receptacle outlet(s) in other bathrooms that`s all it`s saying.
wayne123
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: bathroom circuit
IMO, outlets do not mean receptacles specifically.In Article 100, the definition of an outlet is," A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment". This I take it, not only means a receptacle but any thing else such as a light,fan etc. This is almost as confusing as the threads on dining room circuts.
IMO, outlets do not mean receptacles specifically.In Article 100, the definition of an outlet is," A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment". This I take it, not only means a receptacle but any thing else such as a light,fan etc. This is almost as confusing as the threads on dining room circuts.
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