Bathroom Circuits

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Adamjamma

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Charlie, I am under the impression that the bathroom lighting and exhaust fan is supposed to be part of the bathroom circuit. At least, I was taught that the GFCI outlet should shut the lights and exhaust if it blows in a bathroom. Might just be from an old code, or something, but that is my understanding. Could that be why you are allowed to wire all bathrooms from one breaker? Because in reality the lights are not supposed to be on it?
 
I have moved the post shown above to its own thread. It was initially inserted into a thread that addressed a similar topic, but was not directly related to that thread's question.
 
Adamjamma said:
Charlie, I am under the impression that the bathroom lighting and exhaust fan is supposed to be part of the bathroom circuit. At least, I was taught that the GFCI outlet should shut the lights and exhaust if it blows in a bathroom. Might just be from an old code, or something, but that is my understanding. Could that be why you are allowed to wire all bathrooms from one breaker? Because in reality the lights are not supposed to be on it?
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The bathroom light and fan can be part of the 20 amp bathroom circuit if the circuit only supplies that bathroom. Unless the fan has a requirement from the manufacturer to be GFCI protected neither the light nor the fan are required to have it by the NEC.
 
Only the receptacles are required by the NEC to be GFCI-protected. The only other things that would be required to be GFCI protected is a light or fan in a shower or above a bathtub area. Otherwise, The lights, the fan, etc. all can be on another circuit if you like.

However, if you DO run the 20a bath circuit to anything other than receps in that bathroom, that 20a bath circuit must stay within that bathroom. It cannot be used to feed another bathroom
 
Article 210.11(C)(3) gives us two options. One is to put bathroom receptacles, and nothing other than bathroom receptacles, on a 20 amp circuit. You can include two or more bathrooms on that circuit, but you can't put any bathroom lights or other outlets on that circuit. The other is to put as many things as you want (not to exceed the loading limit, of course), including for example bathroom receptacles, lights, and fans, on the same circuit, but that circuit cannot supply anything outside that one bathroom. I think the reason for the first option is that if people in separate bathrooms are all using hair dryers and cause that circuit to trip, they might not be able to tell (at first) what happened. But at least they all will still have the lights to help them leave the space. I also think the reason for the second option is that if a person starts running too many things in the bathroom and causes the circuit to trip, they will at least know what happened and why. They won't have the light to help them leave the space, but at least they should be able to feel their way safely to the door.
 
The risk of typing a long answer is that others may beat you to posting the same answer. Sigh! :slaphead:
 
ok, so if you have a half bath with no outlet in it backed up to a full bath with receptacles in it, you cannot share the lights and fans for both bathrooms on the same circuit because it is supplying the outlets in the one bathroom...ok...

Jamaica recommends, at least from the closeness of the British codes, that there be no outlets in a bathroom other than a shaver outlet, unless they are a minimum of 3 feet away from the tub or the basin or shower... so not allowed to fit one in the half bath or guest bath due to distance requirement... at least suggested... anyway. Another code that will probably be changed in the future..hahaha.
 
charlie b said:
I also think the reason for the second option is that if a person starts running too many things in the bathroom and causes the circuit to trip, they will at least know what happened and why. They won't have the light to help them leave the space, but at least they should be able to feel their way safely to the door.
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I believe the reason for option two is to allow a single circuit to supply an added bathroom.
 
Adamjamma said:
.........Jamaica recommends, at least from the closeness of the British codes, that there be no outlets in a bathroom other than a shaver outlet, unless they are a minimum of 3 feet away from the tub or the basin or shower... ...........
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Interesting. First, that it's a recommendation, not a requirement. Second, that it's called a shaver outlet. What's to keep someone from plugging in a hair dryer or curling iron?

And why 3 feet? Anyone can reach both the receptacle and the basin or shower, even without a cord attached to some personal-care appliance.
 
well, shaver outlets are low in amperage ability. not common in the USA except in some hotels and then usually in the lights over the mirrors. Round plugs usually and something like 3 to six amps output, though it is in 240 or 120. But, many of the toothbrushes and shavers use these plugs which are similar yet different to the French two prong plug. Not the same spacing.

Second, that is the only plug allowed in a British bathroom. Light switches in British bathrooms must be ceiling mounted pull chain or mounted outside the bathroom. Wiring for an electric shower must be switched outside with a pull cord inside. towel heaters etc must be wired so that they cannot be touched or unplugged.. ie a consumer cannot touch live wiring. If you want to use a hair dryer or curling iron it is in your bedroom or using a long extension cord..lol

Jamaican code used to be mandatory the same way but was switched to recommended... because of electric tooth brushes and the hair dryer and curling iron. But it is fairly strict in that it has a preferred practice that a 'makeup' area have its outlets at least three feet away from any basin or bath/shower area. A shaver outlet may be mounted closer but must be at least 8 inches above the counter top, or may be mounted with a light if part of the lights assembly.

Jamaican codes are a bit strange in where they get specific... Lie the one about kitchen small appliances circuits... they added the requirement for two from the USA, but limited the amount of outlets on them to three, yet you can use 15 or 20 amp outlets... not required to be 20 amp outlets. GFCI is a recommended but not yet required, basically because the last code change was in the nineties... the one in 2003 was never signed into law. So only places you see GFCI for the most part are us foreigners..lol.. especially the Canadians.
 
Jamaica has no requirements for twenty amp circuits. None. only a recommendation for shops and for kitchens, but the requirement for a minimum of 12 gauge or 2.5mm wire to outlets and a minimum of 14 gauge or 1.5 mm wire to lighting circuits. The only requirements really concern specific appliances- Microwave, Fridge, Freezer, water heater if electric, garbage disposal, dishwasher, and water pumps... , oh and AC units... and they are to use the appliance information for the circuit breaker but to use a minimum of 12 gauge if on a fifteen or 20 amp breaker. A lot more codes in the NEC. Most Jamaican Electricians will have problems if the NEC becomes the laws, but man of the electricians I know are looking forward to it. Some of the younger ones are hoping that if it comes in they can then get the extra training to be able to migrate to the USA and Europe after being certified in it.
 
Adamjamma said:
ok, so if you have a half bath with no outlet in it backed up to a full bath with receptacles in it, you cannot share the lights and fans for both bathrooms on the same circuit because it is supplying the outlets in the one bathroom...ok...

Jamaica recommends, at least from the closeness of the British codes, that there be no outlets in a bathroom other than a shaver outlet, unless they are a minimum of 3 feet away from the tub or the basin or shower... so not allowed to fit one in the half bath or guest bath due to distance requirement... at least suggested... anyway. Another code that will probably be changed in the future..hahaha.
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The NEC only defines "Bathroom".

I suggest you start with the 2017 NEC Article 100 Definition of Bathroom:
An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a urinal, a tub, a shower, a bidet, or similar plumbing fixtures.
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The term "half bath" or "full bath" really isn't defined, or used in the words of the Code itself.

Under the NEC, if the things present makes up a "bathroom", then a GFCI protected receptacle outlet must be installed within 3 feet of the basin. Distance from tub or shower space is not given, rather, one can't install the receptacle outlet within the tub or shower space, right beside it, yes, within, no.
 
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