Bathroom GFI Question ?

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wrestless

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Can any lighting be installed on a bathroom receptacle GFI on the load side ?
According to 210.11 ( C ) (3 ) and 210.23 (A) exception unless i am not reading this correctly it says shall only supply RECEPTACLE OUTLETS specified in that section. And secondly can lighting in bath be ran off 20 amp circuit dedicated in bath on line side of GFI. This was done in a new house and was inspected and passed. Any input much appreciated.
 
You're not allowed to use the receptacle circuit for lighting if you are supplying more than one bathroom with a single circuit, otherwise, if you only have one bathroom on a circuit you can use it for both lighting and receptacles. I think that answers both questions.
 
There is an exception to 210.11(C)(3) that permits the 20 amp circuit for a single bathroom to supply other equipment with in the same bathroom. So if the 20 amp circuit doesn't feed any other bathrooms the lights can be on the same circuit. You could connect the light on either the line or load side of the GFCI protection for the receptacle.

Chris
 
I like the idea of load siding the light but other guys don't like the fact that you'll lose the light if the GFCI trips, which I agree isn't optimal.
 
Physis 3 said:
I like the idea of load siding the light but other guys don't like the fact that you'll lose the light if the GFCI trips, which I agree isn't optimal.
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So don't gfi the light... :wink:, FWIW, I don't see the problem either if the light goes out.
 
raider1 said:
There is an exception to 210.11(C)(3) that permits the 20 amp circuit for a single bathroom to supply other equipment with in the same bathroom. So if the 20 amp circuit doesn't feed any other bathrooms the lights can be on the same circuit. You could connect the light on either the line or load side of the GFCI protection for the receptacle.
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Can anyone explain to me because I am not sure how to read 210.23 (a)
the exception to 210.23 (a) states that the small appliance branch circuit
for laundry and bath circuits required in a dwelling by 210.11 (c) (1), (2) and (3) SHALL supply only the RECEPTACLE outlets specified inthat section. Is a receptacle a device for lighting also ? I thought a receptacle is a device for an attachment plug
 
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210.11 (3) is telling you at least ONE 20 amp branch circuit is required, & such circuits shall have no other outlets....

the EXCEPTION, tells you if a 20 amp circuit supplies a SINGLE bathroom than you can supply other outlets in that bath room.

Read the definitions of an outlet and a receptacle also, they are not the same...
 
only gfci what needs gfci?

only gfci what needs gfci?

You could for instance line side feed the vanity light overhead light and fart fan and load side to the switch of a high hat over the shower with a freznel lens trim. I have had inspectors discuss thier displeasure with this method at times.
 
quogueelectric said:
You could for instance line side feed the vanity light overhead light and fart fan and load side to the switch of a high hat over the shower with a freznel lens trim. I have had inspectors discuss thier displeasure with this method at times.
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Why would you GFI protect a recess over a shower?
 
stickboy1375 said:
210.11 (3) is telling you at least ONE 20 amp branch circuit is required, & such circuits shall have no other outlets....

the EXCEPTION, tells you if a 20 amp circuit supplies a SINGLE bathroom than you can supply other outlets in that bath room.

Read the definitions of an outlet and a receptacle also, they are not the same...
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I think I am reading incorrectly ,I do know what it says in 210.11 but it also says to refer to art 210.23 (a) if you read the exception to 210.23 does it not say that the small appliance circuit in laundry and Bath shall supply only receptacle outlets specified in that section. I am thinking that no lighting can be taken off any laundry or bathroom receptacle circuit. 210.11 (3) exception
states other OUTLETS for other equipment within the same bath OK. I am also thinking of a kitchen circuit if you can do this in a bath why would NEC
say you couldnt do this in a KITCHEN. Not to beat a dead horse but what about a handicapped person when the lights go out ( BAD IDEA )
 
quogueelectric said:
gfci protection in this shower area is required only where specified in the installation instructions of the luminaire.
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Hey, I've never seen a recess request gfi protection, that was the only reason I asked, I was hoping to get a heads up on maybe a brand i don't normally use...
 
wrestless said:
I am thinking that no lighting can be taken off any laundry or bathroom receptacle circuit.
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Your mistaken as far as the bathroom.

210.11 (3) exception
states other OUTLETS for other equipment within the same bath OK.
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You did not look at the article 100 definition of outlets did you?

The box installed for a light fixture is in fact an outlet, a lighting outlet to be precise.

Do not confuse 'receptacles' with an 'outlets'.:smile:


Not to beat a dead horse but what about a handicapped person when the lights go out ( BAD IDEA )
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What about that same person during a utility failure?

The NEC is not interned to be a design manual and if we install only to code minimums we will likely have unhappy customers.
 
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Excuse me I do know what the definition of an outlet is, again I will repeat
is anyone looking at the exception to 210.23 (a)
EXCEPTION :
The small appliance branch circuits, LAUNDRY branch circuits,and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling (s) by 210.11 (c) (1), (2),and (3) shall supply the RECEPTACLE outlets specified in that section.
What is a RECEPTACLE under art 100 is it not a device used to plug into.
Would this not mean that you would not feed lighting OUTLETS because
after all a OUTLET and RECEPTACLE are 2 different animals are they not?
It is very possible that I am not reading this correctly but I definetly see a
misinterpetation here.Why would you be able to use this circuit to supply lighting in a bathroom but you are not allowed to supply lighting in a kitchen of the small appiance circuit?
Definition RECEPTACLE :A receptacle is a CONTACT device installed at the
OUTLET for the connection of an attachment plug.
 
Lets try to keep this simple, you basically have two choices when wiring the required bathroom receptacle(s)... 210.52 (D), You can wire EVERY bathroom RECEPTACLE(s) off the required 20amp circuit 210.11(C)(3) OR if you want you can use the Exception under 210.11(C)(3) and pull a 20a circuit to EACH bathroom and supply outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom, NOW if you are using the Exception then you have to follow 210.23(A)...
 
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wrestless said:
Can anyone explain to me because I am not sure how to read 210.23 (a)
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The other load not to exceed 50 percent of the circuit for example if you supplied a single bath receptacle with a 20 amp circuit you maybe able to supply a floor heat circuit in that bahtroom so long as it was less than 10 amps not good design just for example only
 
While gfci are great lets try not to protect lights in a bathroom where not required.You are protecting past code and are creating a hazard. The receptacle needs protected but not the light.This is simple even on a dedicated line.Try not to put the lights on gfci unless specs call for it.Think in terms of it being you at 1 am and the lights go out.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
While gfci are great lets try not to protect lights in a bathroom where not required.You are protecting past code and are creating a hazard. The receptacle needs protected but not the light.This is simple even on a dedicated line.Try not to put the lights on gfci unless specs call for it.Think in terms of it being you at 1 am and the lights go out.
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What hazard?
 
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