I am an Process Control Electrical Engineer, building a 3 BR 2 1/2 bath home. My electrical contractor has powered all bathrooms with a common 20 amp circuit with a GFI receptacle in the 1/2 bath. I understand this is OK with the NEC but do I have any resource to make him change this.
BATHROOM POWER
- Thread starter ricejeep
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: BATHROOM POWER
If the receptacle outlets in all the bathrooms are on the same 20 amp circuit, that is compliant with the NEC. But that one circuit is not permitted to power the lights, fans, or any other component - receptacles only. The reference is NEC 210.11(C)(3). If a single circuit powers one bathroom and no other room, then that circuit can supply all outlets in that bathroom (i.e., lights, fans, etc.).
You can certainly pay to have more work done, but it?s clear that you are looking for another way. So what can you do? It depends on how the contract (or other work agreement) was written. If nothing was written, then you have no recourse for compelling the contractor to make a change.
If the receptacle outlets in all the bathrooms are on the same 20 amp circuit, that is compliant with the NEC. But that one circuit is not permitted to power the lights, fans, or any other component - receptacles only. The reference is NEC 210.11(C)(3). If a single circuit powers one bathroom and no other room, then that circuit can supply all outlets in that bathroom (i.e., lights, fans, etc.).
You can certainly pay to have more work done, but it?s clear that you are looking for another way. So what can you do? It depends on how the contract (or other work agreement) was written. If nothing was written, then you have no recourse for compelling the contractor to make a change.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: BATHROOM POWER
Before he leaves is the time to get this upgraded.Should be easy if he ran the HR to the 1/2 bath.Ask him for a price to change the other 2 baths to dedicated runs.Should maybe take 1 hour of work and some 12-2.Not a big deal before it gets drywall.
Before he leaves is the time to get this upgraded.Should be easy if he ran the HR to the 1/2 bath.Ask him for a price to change the other 2 baths to dedicated runs.Should maybe take 1 hour of work and some 12-2.Not a big deal before it gets drywall.
Re: BATHROOM POWER
The problem is all walls finished and painted. This only became known at builder walkthru. It just seems to me to be a cheap way of doing business. What do you think will happen when my wife runs a 1800 watt hair dryer in one bath and my daughter has a 1200 watt curling iron on in the other bath?
[ January 20, 2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: ricejeep ]
The problem is all walls finished and painted. This only became known at builder walkthru. It just seems to me to be a cheap way of doing business. What do you think will happen when my wife runs a 1800 watt hair dryer in one bath and my daughter has a 1200 watt curling iron on in the other bath?
[ January 20, 2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: ricejeep ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: BATHROOM POWER
Ricejeep
just to let you know, That 1800 watt hairdryer are not really 1800 watts. just like those 5 hp rated air compressors they are selling now are only about 1.5 true hp. Both my bathroom receptacles are on one 20 amp circuit and I have had two of these hairdryers going at the same time with no problems. These new ratings are what they call a peek rating and it is very misleading. I have a new surround sound amp that claims 600 watts total system power output but the input fuse is only a 2 amp now to figure true watts it volts X amps = watts if this amp did deliver 600 watts output then the input fuse would have to be larger than 7 to 10 amps. but with a 2 amp fuse it would only allow 240 watts input before the fuse would blow derated this by 20% would allow 192 watts to run continually add in the power loss across the amp which in most amps would be about 40% you wind up with about 110 watts total system power RMS divided across five channels. And a curling iron that uses 1200 watts? WOW That thing must get hot. But what I'm trying to convey is that I have not seen many problems with running all the bath receptacles on one 20 amp circuit. as long as there is no other outlets like lights or fans or heat fan/lights on with it. and the only time I did have a problem with one was when a home owner was using a portable electric heater (true 1600 watts) in the bath room to take out the chill.
[ January 21, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Ricejeep
just to let you know, That 1800 watt hairdryer are not really 1800 watts. just like those 5 hp rated air compressors they are selling now are only about 1.5 true hp. Both my bathroom receptacles are on one 20 amp circuit and I have had two of these hairdryers going at the same time with no problems. These new ratings are what they call a peek rating and it is very misleading. I have a new surround sound amp that claims 600 watts total system power output but the input fuse is only a 2 amp now to figure true watts it volts X amps = watts if this amp did deliver 600 watts output then the input fuse would have to be larger than 7 to 10 amps. but with a 2 amp fuse it would only allow 240 watts input before the fuse would blow derated this by 20% would allow 192 watts to run continually add in the power loss across the amp which in most amps would be about 40% you wind up with about 110 watts total system power RMS divided across five channels. And a curling iron that uses 1200 watts? WOW That thing must get hot. But what I'm trying to convey is that I have not seen many problems with running all the bath receptacles on one 20 amp circuit. as long as there is no other outlets like lights or fans or heat fan/lights on with it. and the only time I did have a problem with one was when a home owner was using a portable electric heater (true 1600 watts) in the bath room to take out the chill.
[ January 21, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: BATHROOM POWER
Supplying all bathroom receptacles on (1) 20 amp circuit is legit. Section 210.11(C)(3) states that "AT LEAST one 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply all bathroom receptacles." Remember, the NEC is not a design spec...it is a "minimum criteria" for electrical installations.
It is also legit to install a GFI receptacle in the first bathroom (powder room) on the 20 amp circuit and run the remainder of the bathroom receptacles from the load side of that receptacle. Section 210.8(A) merely states that receptacles in these specified areas be GFI protected. Now granted, this might seem like the "cheap & dirty" way to go but there is a solution. If your electrician will not do this for you, you?can do it yourself after the job is completed. Power down the circuit (make sure you double check with a tester), remove the GFI receptacle in the powder room from its location and rewire it so that the wiring is landed on the line side of the receptacle. Next, change over all standard receptacles in the other bathrooms to GFI type making sure the wires are landed on the line side of the receptacle. That way, if and when your wife or daughter trips a GFI, the reset will be local and you won't have to go down to the powder room and reset.
If you're looking to get a separate circuit installed for the new bathroom, that's a different issue and you'll have to follow the suggestions of the other respondents.
Hope this helps.
Supplying all bathroom receptacles on (1) 20 amp circuit is legit. Section 210.11(C)(3) states that "AT LEAST one 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply all bathroom receptacles." Remember, the NEC is not a design spec...it is a "minimum criteria" for electrical installations.
It is also legit to install a GFI receptacle in the first bathroom (powder room) on the 20 amp circuit and run the remainder of the bathroom receptacles from the load side of that receptacle. Section 210.8(A) merely states that receptacles in these specified areas be GFI protected. Now granted, this might seem like the "cheap & dirty" way to go but there is a solution. If your electrician will not do this for you, you?can do it yourself after the job is completed. Power down the circuit (make sure you double check with a tester), remove the GFI receptacle in the powder room from its location and rewire it so that the wiring is landed on the line side of the receptacle. Next, change over all standard receptacles in the other bathrooms to GFI type making sure the wires are landed on the line side of the receptacle. That way, if and when your wife or daughter trips a GFI, the reset will be local and you won't have to go down to the powder room and reset.
If you're looking to get a separate circuit installed for the new bathroom, that's a different issue and you'll have to follow the suggestions of the other respondents.
Hope this helps.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: BATHROOM POWER
It won't keep the breaker from tripping from over current,just make it easy to reset the gfci.
Would wait and see if this is a major problem before wiring in new circuits.Many new homes have this same system and seem to be living with it.
It won't keep the breaker from tripping from over current,just make it easy to reset the gfci.
Would wait and see if this is a major problem before wiring in new circuits.Many new homes have this same system and seem to be living with it.
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