Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

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Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

I know excatly what you are talking about, but this does not mean that the AHJ can not rule on his/her interpretation of said document. To add, the book I hold is the ninth edition of the NEC, and is based on the 2002 edition of the NFPA 70, NEC. It also contains the complete text of NFPA 70 and any applicable formal interpretations issued by the association.

As I said before, I'm in complete agreement on the fact of what 210.52(D) states, but the AHJ in this situation maybe ruling on his/her interpretation based on the explanation of the article. Also, if one has a different view on the a ruling, than they can always submit their difference. The AHJ is not always correct in their ruling.


:)
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Charlie--

What you just said, I mentioned in my last statements. I also mention it again, but I guess your post made it on befor my last.

Thanks for the education guys. I can see we have some great minds on this site! But what I do ask, is that you read what I wrote. :)
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

I guess I should have edited my last, but I can see you guys are posting before I can get done typing!! LOL!

Thanks for the welcomes, and yes I can see we have some great minds on this site. "Heck, you guys are scaring me! I thought I was the smart one <Just Joking>." :) Great to see diffrence of opinions--although I agree with you guys. Love it! That's what make us better than the rest--we live what we like to learn!

Glad to be here!!
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Resistance, we are glad to have you. Don't be afraid to disagree, we don't all agree all the time. We all learn by the discussions we have and they can get pretty lively . . . as you have already found out. :D
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

I'm away from this forum for 12 hours and look what happens.

Hi Al, the reason I posted about the "tub space" verses the "tub zone" was because when I was reading through it again I almost interpreted 406.8(C) as refering to the tub zone. And then it occured to me that I know what a tub zone is but I have no idea what a tub space is. Please don't help me with common sense, I have a little of that around here somewhere, but I am scratching my chin about tub space.
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

A space--in reference to your question-- would be any area dedicated for a specific use. That space would include the entire area that needs to be used by the specific item.
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

How do you know that?

Would it be adequate to place a receptacle near a tub but so contact with it by someone in the tub would normally be avoided? Would it not generally be considered propoer to install a receptacle substantially above the the tub? If it's adjacent to the tub, how far away would it have to be to be considered a sufficiently safe distance?
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Sam,

The word space shows up 430 times in the NEC Handbook. There is space defined by a fixed measure, and there is space like Resistance is describing.

I think the idea of being able to sit in the tub and reach out of the tub space to a receptacle is a red herring. The NEC Handbook offers this comment after 406.8(C):
Section 406.8(C) prohibits the installation of receptacles inside bathtub and shower spaces, even if the receptacles are installed in a weatherproof enclosure. Prohibiting this installation helps prevent the use of shavers, radios, hair dryers, and so on, in these areas. The unprotected line side of GFCI-protected receptacles installed in bathtub and shower spaces could possibly become wet and therefore create a shock hazard by energizing surrounding wet surfaces.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Thanks AL!

Someone once said, "There's a balance between the code and common sense!"

Common sense tells you to "not" put a receptacle in the face up position in a kitchen counter top. While code will tell you the same--NEC 406.4 (E). Great balance isn't it!
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Resistance,

This a quote from the post you responded to from Physis:

Please don't help me with common sense
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Should I use your common sense or mine?
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Physis-

I didn't mean it that way. Yet, use your own good judgement! I'm here to help!

[ November 16, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: resistance ]
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Physis-

I didn't mean it that way. Yet, use your own good judgement! I'm here to help!

I work in the electrical trade every day. It comes a time when you have to make judgement calls that fit the customer--and stay within code requirements<<<This brings balance to the table, and when the table is balanced, "everyone is happy!" Code is based on safety, and most of what we know about safety is learn through trial and error. and the other half is through years of investigation, and theory.

Sorry! ;)
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

There's no reason to apologize. I apologize.

Welcome aboard!

Here, try on these shades :cool:
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

The debate rages, and I am concerned that some are missing a great source of info that can be used to resolve Code debates.
1.) Explanatory notes, etc. in the Handbook aren't enforceable as Code unless the AHJ decides so, the governing authority adopts it, etc., HOWEVER, I have talked with only a very few individuals who have as much knowledge as those who prepared the commentary in the Handbook.
I understand that the reasoning behind commentary not being included in Code is that it doesn't undergo the same scrutiny and approval process, not because it is likely to be wrong.
No one should ignore or even discount the commentary available unless your Code development experience is equal to those who prepared the Handbook.
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Originally posted by jtester:
Explanatory notes, etc. in the Handbook aren't enforceable as Code unless the AHJ decides so, the governing authority adopts it, etc.,
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Do you have knowledge of any AHJ that has actually adopted the handbook as code?

I do not believe they could if they wanted to.

Originally posted by jtester:
HOWEVER, No one should ignore or even discount the commentary available unless your Code development experience is equal to those who prepared the Handbook.
Click to expand...
I disagree with that, always question things and try to obtain the answer from the code itself.

Yes I think the Handbook is a good product I will be spending $170 for it in Feb when the CD-ROM comes out, I like the pictures. :D
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

iwire

The State of New Mexico has adopted the Handbook and its interpretations as part of the State of New Mexico Electrical Code, which is the enforceable Code here.

I find it to be great. The explanations, exhibits, etc., are a fabulous source of, in our case, clear directions of Code.

There may be other jurisdictions, I only know about New Mexico.
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

Originally posted by jtester:
iwire

The State of New Mexico has adopted the Handbook and its interpretations as part of the State of New Mexico Electrical Code, which is the enforceable Code here.
Click to expand...
Maybe someone is pulling your leg. ;)

I can not find anything that mentions the Handbook. New Mexico Electrical Code

Bob

[ November 17, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

I don't disagree that the Hand Book and some other's are very useful in getting a better idea of the intention of a code. I use other references to try to figure out what the stupid code is talking about sometimes. They can be invaluable tools. But in the end you still have to go back to the code. I have a book here by Charles Miller, I love this thing. But I would never quote it as code. :p

editted for typo repair

[ November 17, 2004, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Bathroom vanity GFI protected receptacles

iwire

You copied the most recent, 7/04, adoption of the Code. The one before it, 7/02, had the following language. 14.10.4.9 B Interpretations "The bureau adopts the interpretations as given in the 2002 national fire protection association handbook of the national electrical code."

I have been told verbally that the reference to interpretations have been inadvertently omitted in the readoption of the 2002.

We will be adopting the 2005 early next year, and we'll see if the reference to the Handbook is left out again.
 
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